A deadly war of languages

South African institutions of higher learning are under greater and greater threat from multiple fronts. Not only is there a lack of qualified instructors, but many of the instructors have no experience outside the institution where they earned their degrees. Add to this the massive number of students who are attending university and graduate studies programs which fail to attract sufficient students to replace the current instructors (much less to increase the number of lecturers). The outlook is grim indeed. But if Stellenbosch wishes to enforce a single language policy, how will it attract enough instructors to teach all of their classes? How will it recruit instructors who have academic experience outside of Stellenbosch? Even if Stellenbosch manages those two tasks (and the odds are overwhelming), where is the Venda University? Where is the Ndebele University? Surely they are just as worthy as languages, even if their traditions have been harmed by an oppressive state? But maybe that's just another thing that we can't talk about in polite company.

The development of Afrikaans as a language of instruction was fostered by a ruling elite who despised most things not Afrikaans. State resource were deliberately employed to put Afrikaans on par with English. And the establishment of Maties, Tukkies, UFO and Potchestroom was on the back of taxes paid by all - albeit grundgingly by Africans.
The experience of exclusion on the basis of proficiency in Afrikaans from many a former Afrikaans only institution is real for many of us. Add to that the fact that many of the graduates of these institutions tauhgt in former Black Universities with their limitations in English - to the detriment of many at risk students.
The development of mother-tongue instruction in our education system will go a long way to help in the use of Afrikaans and other languages in the higher education. To exclusively propagate for the development and use of Afrikaans only will spell doom for language relations in the country.

You had me thinking. But then you wrote: "The latest to cave in is the law faculty. It has made dual medium obligatory in the entire undergraduate programme, despite a proud and rich tradition of teaching and scholarship in Afrikaans." Proud and rich tradition? I'd say a shameful time of nationalistic superiority and triumphalism, in which time many died-in-the-wool racists were equipped to secure apartheid legally, wrapping up the rights of "lesser beings" tightly in Afrikaans legalese. Proud? Hardly. What's happening to Stellenbosch is what Stellenbosch has done to others in the past. It was done to Afrikaners by Milner, Afrikaners did it to Africans, now Africans (and the sheer international momentum of the English language) are doing it to Afrikaners. Sit back and enjoy the ride, Giliomee. (Or lie back and think of England?)

All people shall have equal right to use their own languages, and to develop their own folk culture and customs.

All national groups shall be protected by law against insults to their race and national pride

Peace and friendship amongst all our people shall be secured by upholding the equal rights, opportunities and status of all

- ANC freedom charter

To be frank, we need many more universities in this country. IF Afrikaans is punted as a medium of single instruction, all languages need to be catered for in dedicated universities.

Check out the following link. http://www.southafrica.info/about/people/language.htm If you scroll to the language demographics pie graph you'll notice that first language demographics are as follows:

13,3% Afrikaans
8,2% English
17,6% isiXhosa
23,8% isiZulu
9,4% Sepedi
7,9% Sesotho
8,2% Setswana

If there are English (8,2%) only institutions, there is CERTAINLY demographic need for specifically Afrikaans, isiXhosa, isiZulu, Sepedi, Sesotho, and Setswana institutions.

Go on, Blade. Stop railing, start developing.

something i have noticed in stellenbosch is that the townies will not serve you if you cannot speak afrikaans well, or if they do, they will do it poorly. basically the extent of your university life will be buying groceries and lectures. shame.

and i have noticed the white english who have gone to stellenbosch to get away from the black people going to uct. and yet the afrikaners are the racist ones... ohhh-kay. [not to sound pro-afrikaner, but they do have valid argument with the "so, from 1948 to 1994 were bad, fine. but what about 1750 to 1910? that's when most of the anti-black measures were entrenched, and it wasn't us running the show."]

To sustain the rich diversity of cultures in the country it would make sense to promote the academic use of other languages also, so I'm all for allocating resources to such development of isiXhosa, isiZulu, Sepedi, Sesotho, and Setswana. From the comments by Nzimande and comments published here, it appears as if most of the opposition to the nurturing of Afrikaans at Stellenbosch stems from a feeling of payback, or vindictiveness.

We all know that the Afrikaans language is not as important as it was during Apartheid! This language has been forcefully institutionalised through commanding businesses to offer language options in either English or afrikaans!!

the truth of the matter is that this is the last bit of Afrikaans arrogance left and a form of discrimination and needs to be dealt with before it's too late! English is the official medium of intruction and no University should be privilaged to do as it pleases especially if it discriminates against the majority of the population!!

This must be done away with because it does not offer equall opportunities to all but rather extends a hand to coloured folk who speak like them!!

And the DA supports this, why am i not surprised!!

the DA does not support BEE/AA/Reparations, but supports discrminatory Universities with racist policies to exclude the people that the DA claims to fight for....

Afrikaans-speaking people may account for only 13,3% of the population, but they pay 45% of personal taxes. That more than justifies Afrikaans-language universities, which are fully recognised by the Constitution.
But when Nzimande says that "single language schools and universities" will not be "allowed", he ignores the 19 English exclusive universities and 85% of schools being "single language" (i.e. English). These 19 English exclusive universities use language as a tool to exclude 35% of the South African population who are not conversant in English.
Ross Musselman asks: "where is the Venda University? Where is the Ndebele University?" Surely that can not be an excuse to deny Afrikaans language universities. Fact is that Afrikaans is the only indigenous official language which is a fully developed academic and scientific language.
2boy The one: since when, and on what Constitutional basis, can you say: "English is the official medium of intruction...."
If ever there was a language with an albatros around it's neck, it is English: a little more than a century ago it was the language in which the first concentration camps in the world were established. Visit http://www.geocities.com/british_atrocities/ and get informed.

2boy, you sound like Malema. Are you Julius Malema? Who's helping you with the computer?

What amazes me about the history of this issue of a predominantly Afrikaans University is that great people like Nelson Mandela, Neville Alexander and Kathleen Heugh have supported the idea (along with those who wrote the ANC Freedom Charter), then Blade Nzimande comes along with these utterances...

The people who want to go to Stellenbosch, and come from the area are predominantly Afrikaans (whatever colour they may be). The world-class academics are predominantly Afrikaans. Those who cannot speak Afrikaans do not want to go there because it is too far. The only reason someone would want to take away Afrikaans would be to punish the Afrikaner, out of hatred, THERE IS NO PRACTICAL REASON TO REMOVE AFRIKAANS FROM STELLENBOSCH.

hmm, ursa, i always thought the white english speaking s'africans went to Stellies cause its more of a jol than CT - awesome location, away from home, good party town and a real student community..
certainly the people i've met that went to stellies have huge networks of people they met there, and all seemed to have a great time (and education)
not so sure it can simply be defined as not wanting to go to uct cause of the demographics..

hanz - short break is over now, you'll have to wait for long break for 2boy to come back..

Reading comments on here by the likes of 2boy The One and pete ess its clear that some South Africans have a very limited knowledge of South African history.

Apartheid stood on two legs, one much like in the USA and elsewhere was crude racism. The other - unlike the USA - a genuine fear that Afrikaans culture would be wiped out without it.

For Afrikaners and Afrikaans speakers to put their trust in a multi-cultural SA and then to have their hopes dashed would be a grand betrayal.

Some make the argument that the Sothos, Vendas, don't have their own univesities so Afrikaans should not and then to say in the same breath that they should all have their own universities! Weird reasoning.

Use Afrikaans as an example against cultural imperialism for all South Africa's languages rather than try drag it down because of the lack of your imagination and ambition for other languages.

Lastly, I find it ironic and tragic that English whites go to Stellenbosch and then want to be teached in English.

Hanz Rauch/Sinudeity

You seem to confuse the freedom Charter and Obscure it's points to your benefit! the freedom charter's main objective is to establish EQUALITY and human rights and dignity to all ccreating conditions of equal OPPORTUNITIES!! A University with a discriminatory language policy that excludes the majority of the population is going back into the Apartheid's main policy drive of "Seperate Development"!! Universities like this are not teaching the concepts in the Freedom Charter but rather steer FAR away from it.

"The world-class academics are predominantly Afrikaans."

There you go right there! It's that Afrikaans arrogance again that we need to get rid of... There is no such rubbish!!

2boy: The ANC FREEDOM charter permits it... anyone can receive education in ANY language they so wish.

2boy:

Does Stellenbosch not offer degrees in English?

YOUR argument here, is purely out of your hate for Afrikaans and the Afrikaans people.

There are so many broader issues relating to education that are far more important than this needlessly lengthy and tedious support for an educational institution to exclude people based on language and therefore race.
Firstly, I live in Linden, where there is an Afrikaans school, which is walking distance from my house, but which I cannot send any of my children to because they are not fluent in the medium of instruction. It is said to be a good school, but non-Afrikaans speakers like my kids are excluded and that's simply wrong.
Secondly, there is a dire need for investment in our higher education institutions to better equip the professors, to ensure our degrees are brought up to international levels and to encourage students to become part of research (and other varsity-related) programmes.
Lastly, how do we determine which languages are important, which cultures deserve to be protected and which people should be made more equal than others?
Logistically, we can't have 11 new varsities, each one with a different official language of instruction and if we can't do that then Stellenbosch should remain dual-medium or be made an English university. And that rule should also apply to all schools so that we better equip future generations in the language which is unfortunately spoken in most of the developed world: English.
We can't continue to discriminate through language -- it was done for far too long and has to stop now.

As a former Matie, I'd say the Afrikaans medium issue is about far more than language. Based on all the reasons quoted in the article, it would be plausible to keep Stellies Afrikaans... But the problem with Stellenbosch is that it excludes a majority of South Africans who, like the Afrikaans speaking population of this country, have a right to have access to the world class education that the university offers... Former Rector Chris Brink gave a really good speech about the difference between Afrikaans as a language (which I assume the writer is talking about here), and Afrikaanerdom as an ideology, which I believe is what distorts the argument for Stellenbosch retaining the Afrikaans medium... The language, as much as one would like to preserve it as an academic language, is used very effectively as a tool to exclude - this also explains why despite the fact that coloured people in the Western Cape are Afrikaans speaking, they do not go to Stellenbosch in hordes...
In the meantime, the University recruits black students using bursaries as incentives, added to that, they do not administer a test to check how proficient students are in Afrikaans, and lecture hall dynamics are such that when students ask for assistance in English, they are told to go to UCT if they want their answers in English - and there are countless other incidents of students being excluded not by the language itself but its use... (it then doesnt take a genius to see why Afrikaans students out-perform their English counterparts...)

So... Afrikaans the language is only an enabler for prejudice, and perhaps the writer should look at how to remove exclusivity and discrimination from an issue purely of language... Because if we can't separate the two, then the language is doomed, and will be removed as a matter of democratic principle...

Sinudeity @gmail.com

I do not hate Afrikaans people and i actually prefer them as they are straight forward and not pretentious!

"Does Stellenbosch not offer degrees in English?"

what's the point if they offer those degrees while speaking English and Afrikaans in one class/Lecture?

I repeat, the basis of the Freedom Charter was equal opportunities! This University does not offer equal opportunities to all but rather creates an environment of "seperate development"!!

That does not make me racist!!

"If SA belonged to all South Africans then Stellenbosch would create conditions that will allow ALL South africans to acquire their Education there!"

NB! understand the Freedom Charter before using it to make a point!

2boy: Do you attend Stellenbosch?

Afrikaans classes for those that are Afrikaans, English for those that are English.

Was there not a call from Blade a while back, to have more Zulu/Xhosa varsities built? Would you be against that?

The freedom charter states, that its every citizens rights, to receive education in any language of his or her choosing.

Do I have to be a black dude, before I can 'understand' the freedom charter?

What if I go to work for a business, thats English, and Im afrikaans. Does that mean, that 'equal opportunities' are not being created for me?

What about any of the other official languages in South Africa?

Afrikaans is actually spoken, by quite a big portion of our population. And if they want to receive education in their mother tongue, then its their constitutional right.

"Everyone has the right to receive education in the official language or languages of their choice in public educational institutions where that education is reasonably practicable."

- South African constitution

Hermann Giliomee has written some interesting articles regarding the "Afrikaanse Taalstryd". If you want to read more of his work, especially about Afrikaans, I do recommend the following url's:
http://boek.nuwegeskiedenis.co.za/Afrikaans/Die_skrywers/Hermann_Giliomee/Afrikaanse_Taalstryd
AND
http://boek.nuwegeskiedenis.co.za/Afrikaans/Die_skrywers/Hermann_Giliomee/The_Rise_and_Possible_Demise_of_Afrikaans_as_a_Public_Language

2boy:
Your stupidity and arrogance is only transcended by Julius Malema but then we know he only got a G in woodwork and is quite incapable of complex reasoning.
Afrikaans has been turned into a language of science, art and literature and has no indigenous equivalent on this continent except for Arabic which has been around for 100's of years.
Afrikaans will be kept alive by its speakers (white & non-white) despite open animosity of the ANC, and a large number of blacks and white English-speakers. It's greatest challenge is to become a force of transformation but not on the ill-conceived model forced down our throats by the ANC. Perhaps it is no surprise that the ANC has least support in a province dominated by Afrikaans speakers consisting of various colours and cultures.
I daresay Afrikaans has the most dynamic and brightest thinkers and strategists of all groups in its corner.
I am not Afrikaans but that doesn't stop me from appreciating a great SA institution, viz. Afrikaans, which is shared by a great diversity of people in this land.

Sorry to interupt the racial debate, but there are valid arguments for removing Afrikaans as a language of instruction. The world is changing, and in order to compete universities and students need to be educated in a global language. I could only see English attracting more worldly and varied educators from all over the world who could not offer their specialised lessons in Afrikaans. Honestly, having classes in Afrikaans limits the education of those students. Once they leave uni and enter into the working world, everything is in English.
I respect the fact that Afrikaans has been used her for a while, and I respect the fact that the language holds a cultural significance to people, but this isn't about racism or culture, it's about education.

I do a lot of engineering on the sea bottom about 1000 meter deep in the North Atlantic. The medium is Norwegian en I use Afrikaans to establish a close relation. Afrikaans is a seaman language, what in today is called computer language. Afrikaans is still the international foundation for the Germanic language group. That's from North Italy to the North-pole circle. Baltic countries, Scandinavia, German and the Dutch language groups. It's silly on higher education and income group not to learn Afrikaans. Yes, many speak English as second language, but it stays a second often a unfriendly language.

Choke Choke-
I don't argue that there are areas in which Afrikaans can be useful, but I highly doubt that you learned or maintained your knowledge of Afrikaans at university. What I do suspect, is that you probaly learned navigation and important nautical lingo in English, or latin, but I highly doubt it was in Afrikaans.

Mimi - you make a good point and that is a practical reason to remove Afrikaans.. I apologise for my previous use of capital letters.

But it seems like the reasoning of our politicians is not the same as yours, but rather to remove the exclusion.

I do want to point out however that Asian, Middle-Eastern, European and South-American countries all have Universities which educate in non-English languages. I studied at Stellenbosch and did a course where we were teamed up with German and Brazilian students who were studying in their native tongues - it was quite interesting, but we managed quite well.

This may be a feeble point, but I think studying in more than one language makes one learn even more than just studying in English.

I am all for more Universities teaching in other national languages - I think it will do a lot for the upliftment of our various cultures. After all, a University is not just a place for learning.

mimi mak.

when afrikaans ceases to be a language of money in this country, i would agree that its usage at university level can go away. but since, in many places, [most notably cape town and bloemfontein], many afrikaans people with money will only part with their money to people to ask them for it in their own language -- it is not going to go away anytime soon.

ian, when you speak english with an american accent, white people seem to complain about south african blacks in ways that they will never do around black people who they suspect to be south africans. funny enough, i've heard *less* negative things from afrikaans-speaking whites than from english-speaking whites.

[and since i can understand afrikaans, having spent large parts of my childhood in flanders, it's not a language thing. i can speak an nguni language also, so i understand when the xhosa taxi drivers here are convinced that i'm a nigerian who needs to be deported.]

GUS @ WORK/Sinudeity @gmail.com

the problem is that you people assume we are attacking Afrikaans people and their culture! We are not! Our main aim is an inclusive society, socially, economically and in terms of education, BUT most importantly OPPORTUNITIES!! This University is not giving equall opportunity to ALL South Africans but to only those that can speak it which is, at most, 30% of "prospective scholars"!!

That is the issue!!

Sinudeity @gmail.com

"Do I have to be a black dude, before I can 'understand' the freedom charter?"

NO! You just need to use common sense! If you want to understand rights and equalities you gotta understand 2 things:

1) Just like us as citizens have "the right" to learn in our mother tongue the Institutions that we attend also have an obligation to accomodate and not discriminate against other racial groups, languages, cultures, etc! It's like going to a shopping centre with a sign at the entrance saying "We only want Italian customers"!! That goes against the principles of the Freedom Charter!

2) Rights are limited! When your rights start invading the rights of another individual then you forfeit your right as a citizen!!

1)

Sinudeity,

You are so fast on accusation and so slow in accomodating other people's differing views....

This is a multi racial society, and we need to admit that Afrikaans as a language has always been given prominence than it deserves at the expense of the other languages. This needs to be corrected as a matter of urgency so that all languages enjoy equal prominence.

Can we discard the laager mentality, at least on this important subject...........

I agree that they should remove Afrikaans in class rooms.

So, here's a question. Why only remove Afrikaans? Let's remove ALL languages from ALL schools and institutions and force everyone to only study in English.... thus history repeated. (refer 1976 when students protested when they were not allowed to be taught in their home language)

2boy/Proudly_South African: I quote the constitution again:

"Everyone has the right to receive education in the official language or languages of their choice in public educational institutions where that education is reasonably practicable."

Stellies, yeah, its 'reasonably practicable'.
And if you dont like it, UCT is just down the road.

Dear Elizca,

An inordinate amount of money has been spent on promoting and protecting Afrikaans over the years. There are far more education institutions that offer instruction in Afrikaans than any other of our official languages, excepting English.
Insisting that schools and varsities remove Afrikaans as the only medium of instruction is more about making education accessible to all -- it has nothing to do with an attack on Afrikaners themselves.

PS: The June 16 1976 uprising was more about African scholars not wanting to be taught in Afrikaans than it was about not learning in their native tongue. If the medium of instruction was English, the uprising wouldn't have happened, but because it was the language of their oppressors being rammed down their throats yet again, they protested against it (it being Afrikaans).

......but I am sure that you will agree that a "big whole university" cannot have Afrikaans as the only language. If it were not happening and that serious one would actually laugh at it that people are propagating that a language of the minority should be the only lanuguage to be used.

Because we are multi racial, let us use English in all our universities, and put programmes in place to develop and give prominence to other languages........I have studied at the so-called Afrikaans university and would not want any African child to go through what I went through at this Afrikkans university.

Proudly_South African: PS. Good to read you again this week.

Proudly_South African:

No, they do not give classes exclusively in Afrikaans. They have English classes too.

Other countries in the world have similar language challenges. In multilingual countries like Belgium, Switzerland, Canada it's quite usual to have language-specific schools and universities which cater for the respective language communities. What makes it easier though is that these communities are restricted to specific geographical areas (Québec, Flanders, Wallonia, Swiss francophone, germanophone, etc.), which is not necessarily the case in SA.
Should SA have language-specific universities? I don't see why not, in a country with 11 official languages, unless the government has legislated that one language (English?) be the official academic language for all. I'd be interested to know what government policy is in this regard. Considering the high percentage of mother tongue Afrikaans speakers (not only whites), it makes perfect sense, from a purely demographic point of view, to have Afrikaans tertiary institutions. But the existence of an Afrikaans university should not be seen as an attempt to exclude other language groups and I don't see why Stellenbosch, a traditionally Afrikaans university, shouldn't continue to teach in that medium, since there are enough Afrikaans speakers to justify its existence, just as there are enough Zulu speakers to justify establishing a Zulu-speaking university (again, I'd be interested to know what government policy is), and there are enough English medium universities for students wanting to study in that language.
In Belgium it would be unthinkable to argue that Flemish-speaking universities are discriminatory as they put French speakers at a disadvantage, and vice-versa. Those universities specifically cater for the respective language groups in the country (Leuven university for Flemish speakers, Louvain for French speakers) while not excluding students from other language groups who master the other language. As far as I know, a large percentage of S.Africans attending university are at a disadvantage in any case as the language of instruction (English) is not their native language. So I can't understand how getting rid of Afrikaans at Stellenbosch will solve this problem, unless you replace it with an African language.

I know! I used to attend English classes only from 5 pm up to 11 pm - can you see how awkward that can be for a young student???

I just hope there can a solution without some racist organization organising other disgruntled South Africans to resist reforms at all our institutions of higher learning.........

Proudly_South African: Or without some racist organisation, interfering, meddling and undermining a language and culture of a people, purely because of their language or their skin colour.

Like I said, go to UCT if the english classes rub you the wrong way.

Zazie, Thumbs up! But not for your final suggestion... that is just making Afrikaans the problem, again. It will be easier and more sensible to build an accessible University in Natal/Eastern Cape/Gauteng. Or convert and invest in a University that is closer to the solution.

"Afrikaans" dug its own grave. Now it must stop whinging and squealing and lie in it. We had to listen to accusations of "anglisimes" and suffer grudging use of English often (always less than promised). Wheels turn. Afrikaans promoters claim pure motives, but their motives are actually purely selfish. MOSTLY the use of Afrikaans in schools and varsities is to keep the schools white. That's the truth. It's not "cultural" it's racial, julle mense! And it ain't pretty.

There are 19 English-exclusive universities in South Africa; if you want to study in English, you have more than an enough choice.
Fact is that English is not understood by 35% of the SA population at an elementary level, and not understood by 56% at a level required to undertake tertiary education. That means that more than half the South African population is excluded from universities which offer tuition in English only.
The same arguments about Stellenbosch Univeristy using Afrikaans as an exclusion mechanism, applies to the exclusive English universities which use English as an exclusion mechanism.
I obtained all my degrees (under- and postgraduate) through medium of Afrikaans. I studied and taught at universities in Britain, the USA, Australia and Taiwan - and never found my Afrikaans university education to be a drawback in any way; to the contrary, it opened up new areas of knowledge in Dutch, German and Flemish.
To insist in going to Stellenbosch University and being taught in English is as unconstitutional as going to Wits or UCT and demand to be taught in Afrikaans or Xhosa or Sotho.
We have eleven official languages, and the constitution guarantees that they have equal status. Why should English be more equal than the others?
The 1976 riots in Soweto was the result of one languaged be forced down the throats of learners at school; don't repeat the mistake by forcing English down the throats of learners.
Viva Afrikaans! Viva Stellenbosch University!

I never ever thought I would be saying this, but Afrikaners have a right to be taught in their own language according to our Constitution. However, as pete ess has pointed out, if the intention is to keep the U of Stellenbosch predominantly white rather than preserving their language and culture, then we have a problem. This "dual medium" BS must stop since the losers are:
- Blacks are forced to learn Afrikaans even though they may detest the language - what an insult!
- The Coloured Afrikaans-speaking community are at a distinct disadvantage since they are usually not bi-lingual like many of the whites.
- The Afrikaner culture suffers a backlash from the university is forcing languages onto students.
The only winners are the University lecturers and racism.

"Democratic Alliance called for the university to be predominantly an Afrikaans institution"
Not surprisingly, once again the DA proves to just a lite version of the old Nat party.

One possible way to prevent the university from becoming an exclusive enclave for white students, is to ensure that EVERY course in Afrikaans has an equivalent course in English that is comparable in quality. This needs to be enforced and monitored by an unbiased panel within the University system.

Just browsing through the above, I wonder if I can insist on receiving an Afrikaans based degree from the university of Zululand? (Equal opportunities, 2boy The One), or say that not being able to send my children to Diepkloof Primary (based on a lack of Afrikaans instructions)like Thumi Said: my kids are excluded and that's simply wrong.
Wake up people, all we need is better investments in all languages and levels of education. We can double the current amount of universities and still not have enough, considering our young population we are probably already too late!!

Harris: Pete ess didnt point out fact. Merely his opinion.

200 000 Icelanders -- for that's their total population -- have a university in which all undergraduate courses are run in Icelandic and all dissertations can be submitted in Icelandic too.

With regards to the above suggestions for universities in 'black' languages: What is the current state of the primary and secondary curricula in these languages? Until the Gr12 curriculum has been suitably translated and is found to be effective, how can a meaningful tertiary institution be set up?

As to those that forward economic arguments for English-only, they don't really make that much sense - sure, English ability may help in the international job markets (as does Hindi, Spanish and Mandarin), but the mere ability to speak the language(s) suffices - one quickly masters the English (etc) technical terminology for one's field, without the education having to occur in English (etc). One learns faster in one's mother tongue.

Great article. Giliomee is an outstanding scholar. He was fellow of Yale and Cambridge university. I wish everyone could read "The Afrikaner".

It just seems to me that, in the process of trying to establish equality, and because of being so absolutely useless at building up and maintaining anything, the ANC would rather pull everyone down than actually apply their energy and resources at something constructive. Hell, if all the people and research show that Afrikaans as a single medium is the best for that area, why the hell do you want to go against it? Sounds very undemocratic to me. Afrikaans is by far the most spoken language in that area.

There's not a lot to be proud of when you're Afrikaans, but one thing I'm definitely proud of, is that we didn't sell out our identity to the English, no matter how hard they tried. We didn't "let the lion eat the sheep". It seems to me sometimes that a lot of black people are willingly offering up their traditions and culture to "westernise". It will be a shame to lose all the diversity in this country - then it won't be the rainbow nation anymore - we'd all be the same colour. Hell, why not build a single medium Zulu university, or Xhosa. I think that'd be amazing and make me really proud to live in this country.

@ Thami Khumalo. thank you so much for your well-reasoned post. Please continue to comment on subjects, please!!! you are correct, I think; good school nearby, why shouldn't your children go there? Are there no 'make up' classes for children who don't speak Afrikaans well? My children (french speaking) went to the French school, and there was always a class set aside for children to improve their French; sometimes the children stayed a couple of months, and did their class work, and learned it in French all at the same time; sometimes, they didn't need to stay long at all. Children learn quickly.) You might find this a useful idea to try.

Thank you for your post; you sound like a normal human being trying to make the best choices you can; and I will pray for your success

Personally, I found the need to study Afrikaans at school a little frustrating. I was English speaking and could not undertsand why I HAD to pass a second langauage. I almost failed matric because of Afrikaans. If Stell. want the language thats fine, provided those who want English can also attend without difficulty.

Given that Stellenbosch is in the WC province, and majority of speakers there (besides English) would be Afrikaans speakers, it seems to make sense that this language would be predominant.

I'd expect universities in KZN to have a focus on isiZulu, and in Eastern Cape to utilize Xhosa as a medium. Seems quite normal to me.

The alternative (and probably cheaper too) is to select 1 national language for use as a teaching medium (English I'd suggest for obvious reasons) and change all universities and schools to be compliant.

I have nothing to add to the comments that are posted. However I would like to say that I am pleased that my son, an English speaker born in Sandton and educated there as well as in British and American schools, chose to go to Stellenbosch University.

It was an enriching experience for him to learn another language and to develop some undertsanding of another culture and community. It has broadened his views and sharpened his belief in his country.

The majority of Afrikaans mother-tongue speakers in the Western Cape are not white. They're brown. So the "argument" that Afrikaans-medium tuition "intentionally preserves Stellenbosch for whites" is just complete ill-informed claptrap but with a malicious edge.

Jon Low

That's actually what is confusing! the majority of Afrikaans speakers are "brown", according to you, in the WC yet the majority of their entrance into Stellenbosch University is EXTREMELY LOW... in fact they are saying that their "AIM" is to get more coloured scholars to prove that language can transcend through the racial barrier!!

After all these years in operation, this university is exclusively for whites!

We do not agree with that!

@Johan Pieterse
An "Afrikaans as a single medium" university! Didn't you get the news on your plaas to inform you that apartheid is no more! The centuries of privilege and handouts from the state for Afrikaners are over. Now Afrikaners need to learn how to play nicely with others for a change, in order to preserve their language and culture, or face certain extinction of their language.

Dave Harris: And there is the apartheid card Ive been waiting for.

Stellenbosch, is not a single medium university.

2boy: "After all these years in operation, this university is exclusively for whites!"

Please can you back up your statements with facts?

"the majority of their entrance into Stellenbosch University is EXTREMELY LOW" - Do you have the %'s, out of interest sake?

Dave Harris

100%

@ LA QUEBECOISE

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I did phone the school to enquire about fees etc and I was treated quite badly. I hate generalising and it may well be that I came across an angry receptionist who didn't want black kids in the school, but I'm not fond of wasting my time on angry people so both my kids go to Blairgowrie -- an English school a small distance away.
They are taught their mother tongue (isiZulu) at home and they learn English (and Afrikaans) at school.
I don't see why Afrikaner children can't learn English at school and Afrikaans at home like everyone else's kids.

Dave Harris can you please explain how you make the conclusion that a single language Afrikaans Stellenbosch is somehow a throwback to apartheid?

At least half of Afrikaans mother tongue speakers are not white. Giliomee makes the point above that the accommodation of English at Stellenbosch makes the university a choice for whites that dont want to go English universities and stifles the integration between white and black Afrikaans speakers. How do you react to that argument?

Somewhere in this crazy comment thread someone suggested that Afrikaners should be taught in English at state institutions and practice and learn their language AND culture at home. I agree. The Afrikaans taal and culture is often still used as a facade for racism. Like many others; do your taal at home and church and English at universities.

In 1981, when some of us ANC people were still in exile, I presented a paper to our 'unit' suggesting that Afrikaans be the 1st lingua franca - national language - of SA. You may balk at the idea, as so many of the ignoramuses in the ANC did, at the idea that the language of the ex-oppresser should be glorified in this way. The likes of Aziz - and his brother Essop - Pahad just brushed it aside, giving as a reason that they didn't speak it.
As a socio-linguist I explained that Afrikaans was an indigenous language par excellence, first spoken by Malay and Coloured slaves to communicate with their Dutch masters in a broken - or patois - Dutch. Afrikaans as the language of the white Afrikaaner only became an official language taught in schools, etc., in 1936. Until then, it was looked upon as a 'language of the kitchen', a bit like Fanagalo.

My psycho-linguistic reason for proposing Afrikaans as the lingua-franca of SA is that it would be the thread binding us together as one people. Zulu, Venda, Pedi, any other language would do, except for the political fallout choosing Xhosi or Zulu would entail (need I explain?).For example, after the Dutch, then the British, left Malaysia, such a debate took place; a minority, little known language was chosen as Malaysia's first official language, despite calls for English.

We should see English as what it is: an imperialist UK/USA language which is fine to use to communicate with the world, but which we don't need to give us as much in common with one another as we would have with (newcoming) outsiders.

Our children need our own nursery rhymes, our own folk songs, our own poetry, that a child in a rural village of KZN will share with a child in Bloemfontein, PE or Limpopo. That is what gives a sense of national identity; then we all also must have our parents' language taught in local schools and, ofcourse, English as a must. I did my Masters in SocioLinguistics in Barcelona, where the language is Catalan but everyone also learns Castilian(Spanish) and either French or English. It is pure ignorance that will be the undoing of our country by entrenching suspicion and fear of the 'other'.

as a yong south african university student i feel the use of afrikaans at some universities limits the black student because one never really understood the language albeit having done it at school level and you have to adapt to it at institutions like Pukke ITS UNACCEPTABLE all these "afrikaner " instutions should oparate like tukkies where there are separate Afrikaans classes for the students preferring the language and english classes the simultaneous translation and the likes system is not going to work ask PUKKE student (black Pukke Students that is)

People

1) An afrikaans institution basically means it excludes blacks, therefore there is no room for your foolishness (unless of course you wanna exclude blacks. Note a percentage of coloured might prosper the black people as a whole will not )
2) Afrikaans is not just a language, it has been given cultural and historical significance - its basically the language of the afrikaners - who were our first major slave drivers (didnt the afrikaners leave the cape becoz the british abolished slavery? they couldnt stand the fact that they couldnt have their black and brown servants)
3) It might be a highly developed language but that development came at the cost of the oppression of other languages..the goal now is to bring those other languages to the fore
4) THis is the price your pay you pay for one of the worst crimes against humanity, now boo woo ...

I'm not sure if I agree with the previous person. I do not think any language should be glorified over another in this country - it's a very sensitive thing to suggest that the people of this country commonalise over Afrikaans. My question is why did you particularly suggest Afrikaans despite the fact that we have other beautiful languages in this country?? We should indeed attempt other official languages since they're also indigenous I think the solution is that we all try and promote our own languages, Afrikaans certainly does not deserve any special treatment over the other 9 languages (barring English - but then again the glorification of the English language is incidental and we only continue using it on a mainstream level as a language of convenience). In any case, if we were to undertake your suggestions and use an indigenous language to try and bind us, I think it would be very impractical and difficult - but that is not good enough reason not to try. I certainly think it's worth a try.

Stellenbosch is NOT "exclusively for whites". That's a barefaced lie or else it's jaw-dropping ignorance. There are literally several thousand students there who are not white, and the university's rector is also not white. So much for "exclusive"! And the majority of the brown folk speak Afrikaans, so it would improve their chances of academic success learning in their mother-tongue if they are smart enough to get into university in the first place. And that's not something of which everyone is capable. Universities everywhere are there for the brightest students and not for the plodders. It's just the nature of the beast.

Has Blade Nzimande, Minister of Higher Education and Training, travelled out of the cities at all? Especially around the Western & Northern Cape & the Free State. The language of Afrikaans dominates these areas, and not just through white people. I have worked in Coloured & Black communities where I have felt particularly "skaam" because of my lack of knowledge of Afrikaans.

Afrikaans is NOT a racist white language & anyone championing such an absurd un-researched idea insults & undermines the identity of many colourful communities throughout South Africa!

I am an ex-Matie (Stellenbosch student). One of those who managed to get through the dual lectures without learning enough Afrikaans, and I do and will always regret this. My time there gave me great insight into the multi-racial Afrikaans culture. It has very gentle, caring & warm, supportive & creative elements to it. I fully support that Afrikaans should be preserved and at least one SA university should be Afrikaans, in order to ensure the culture is preserved.

Just a few thoughts I have with everyone mentioning statistics and percentages:
1) What are the percentages of the language groups of the individuals who actually qualify to study at university?
2) Where would you find enough lecturers for a Venda, Pedi, Sotho etc. university?
3) If you don't like a university, would you not choose another one? I thought we were given this wonderful right to choose?

...Well a lot has been said and it seems so many still have anger all bottled up. I think Mr Mandela's dream of this beautiful country of OURS was to have harmony in all areas of life, respecting each others' culture, tradition, language, human spirit, etc.

We need to make decisions based on facts and not emotions brought forth by our not-so-colourful history. How do we make S.A truelly ours and reflective of diversity in motion? This should be our motive and not to revenge the past injustices, which were wrong and two wrongs don't make a right but bring unnecessary doom economically, politically and othewise.

Keele: Word.

Sinudeity2gmail.com,

Word? Please unravel.

A number of people here like Mohlapametse Maditsi make the statement that Afrikaans benefited at the expense of other local languages, and that has to stop or be reversed.

This argument is simply not supported by history.

Apartheid was many horrid things, but it was not an oppressor of indigenous culture, it was a champion of it (thought not always for the right reasons).

Just today, on the BD front page is a story:
"AWARD-winning actor Sello Maake ka-Ncube yesterday criticised the African National Congress (ANC) government, saying he believed African culture was more protected during the apartheid days.

The former Generations actor blamed the ANC for allowing the SABC to reduce its local content unopposed in recent years."

South African languages are in a most stronger position than most other African languages in other African countries precisely because the reviled Nationalists created support systems for them, and backed it up with funding for the SABC etc.

This was quite unlike what the British or French or Portuguese did in Africa.

Afrikaans' biggest problem is that black South Africans can't seem to even imagine, let alone contemplate, developing their languages so that they can be languages of instruction and science.

@ Thami Khumalo for instance asks why can't Afrikaners not also send their children to English schools. Does not sound unreasonable hey?

Unless you read Afrikaner history and Afrikaners oppression vis a vis the British and the attempt at banning it, and the labeling of it as uncivilised.

It became a totem of anti-colonialism and eventually the ralying point of an identity. The development of Afrikaans as a language of science went hand in glove with a feeling by Afrikaners that they are not second rate.

How does one solve this conundrum?

There is one practical point as well that nobody has made above. Studies show that children that get taught at school in a tongue other than their mother tongue are at a disadvantage.

How to solve this disadvantage? Perhaps we should ban all local languages in the home as well?

Keele: As in, I echo your sentiments.

@ Wessel - you're full of nonsense! I don't think you can say yesteryear's government protected the cultures and languages that were practiced and spoken by black folk - it did not want anything to do with black languages and cultures (all you need do is read case reports from those days and be astounded by the lack of knowledge and the unwillingness to learn, accept or tolerate culture or languages by the white male judges of the day )and the only official languages were English and Afrikaans, so please do not feed us this drivel!

To say that the ANC government (to which I'm not a very big fan) is not protecting culture only because the SABC reduced its local content is quite a stretch! Atleast most black cultures and languages are broadly represented on parliament and in our country's pop culture, which is more than I can say for the apartheid era when such activities were constrained to the homelands! Even Miriam Makeba could only FREELY sing about and in her language and about her culture in other countries like America and in Europe - the so-called imperialists were more willing than the apartheid government to allow that kind of expression.

There is only one solution to all of this, make ENGLISH the only official language in the country. All other languages including Afrikaans should slowly be phased out of officialdom. 10 -20 years from now Stellenbosch will be completely English in any case. And as for Xhosa, which I studied by the way, a third of the vocab is borrowed from other languages, like e Nuclear Power.
People can still speak their choice of language at home etc

Lmao @ all the Afrikaners. Do you think we can't see that you are just trying very hard to separate yourselves from blacks? You are even suggesting that the government makes universties that offer education in other languages... ofcourse you would agree to that, it means that blacks will be very far from you! The only reason we had Afrikaans universities was to exclude blacks, and the only reason to keep them is to exclude blacks. With all this separation, when are we ever gonna be a united nation? Whats up with Afrikaners promoting separation?? For all those Afrikaners who may have got it twisted, "there are no schools teaching in any of the native languages, that happens only in grade 1 to 3, after that you may be taught with the teacher translating to English and the tests are in English!" If Afrikaners want to preserve their language, they must speak it and even offer it as a course in Universities", same way that Xhosa, Zulu, Sotho, Sepedi, SeTswana etc are preserved! Someone mentioned that Afrikaners pay 45% of the total tax collected by the government, well thats because they are rich because of the fruits of apartheid!

There are over 8 million Zulus, all of whom are mother-tongue Zulu speakers. Then there are many non-Zulus who are competent speakers of isiZulu. From these hordes, there surely has to be enough people to run a Zulu-medium university and give lectures in all subjects offered. After all, the tiny handful of a few hundred thousand Afrikaners which existed when Victoria College/Stellenbosch was created managed to do so successfully. And the Icelanders, from a total population of only 200 000, can do so. Eight million Zulus CAN do it, if they put their minds to it. And so can six million Xhosas. So, perhaps it is still a bit out of reach for the few Pedis or Vendas at present, but it must be gettable for the many millions of speakers of four or five of the biggest black languages like isiZulu, isiXhosa, baTswana, seSotho. The roaring success of Afrikaans is, after all, a perfect step-by-step template for how to do the job. Instead of learning this D-I-Y lesson from Afrikaners and to get busy empowering their own languages, Africans appear to prefer to wallow negatively in a dark mood of envy and spite.

@Dave Harris
I suppose that in your view the British were totally innocent in the establishment of apartheid. All the laws enforcing racial separation and equality that were passed PRIOR to the National Party came into power in 1948 were just an accident of nature. Cecil John Rhodes and his friends never set foot in Africa, and may never actually have existed. The British Empire never attempted to put nearly the entire world under the British flag, and the whole Cape to Cairo under British rule idea was really anti-British propaganda.

Dear Dave, at least you are now showing your real colours. You are just a throw-back to British colonialism, pretending to be an ANC puppet. But really, a wally. Good luck to you.

Great article. I noticed a contribution by a Canadian-French speaker "LA QUEBECOISE". There are superficial similarities between the Canadian and the South African situation. Canada was inhabited by many "First Nations" prior to the arrival of the French colonialists after the 1500s. Both the French and the First Nations were subsequently colonised by the British.

Having lived near Quebec for many years, I am aware how seriously the French in Canada take their language. Good for them! All signs in Quebec must be French or bilingual - even inside an Irish pub (there was a case recently). It is near impossible to get a job in Quebec if you cannot speak French, and if you want a revolution, you will tell the Quebecois to close their French-speaking universities. Quebec has many English residents, but is NOT officially bilingual. (There is also a very strong separatist movement).

Canada has only one bilingual province (out of 13) - New Brunswick. As far as I know, only Nunavut has native languages as official languages (next to English and French). Unfortunately, I am not aware of any First Nation language universities. Like others, and as a fluent Sesotho speaker, I am in favour of mother-tongue education in isiZulu. isiXhosa, seSotho, Afrikaans, etc.

Quebec French has much in common with Afrikaans, and serves as a good example, especially given that many of our ancestors were French-speaking as well. Viva la Quebecoise, Viva Afrikaans.

Once again, we beat ourselves up, analyse and overanalyse and concede all our rights just to appease a minority. This is exactly what we did at CODESA. We conceded so much to this minority we are now still feeling the brunt of all those concessions.
WHY MUST A MAJORITY SUFFER AT THE HANDS OF A MINORITY?
If we did the numbers, this group represents one of the smallest numbers against the numbers of a majority group! We dont see the majority group making all these allegations of killing of their culture, so why do we continue to believe the lies of this majority. We are once again falling into a trap of disinformation and manipulation. These practitioners were very good at this for over 50yrs and we cannot see it for what it is.
It has been decided that ENGLISH is an accepted medium to be taught in. Now imagine a highly talented student who comes from a rural village, he goes to a university in town and he must be tutored in a foreign language. Do you see him making claims about his culture being killed. He accepts and struggles to his own detriment barely scraping through. He has no priviledge of money and resources that he can rely on for extra lessons. But yet, no-one speaks of these students and their hardships in terms of the language problem. Hence why must a majority continuously be held ransom at the hands of a minority. No-where in the world does this happen. Are we too stupid to recognise these old tactics of gross manipulation!
Blade is spot on and I hope he rules against this exclusive institutions so that they understand that SA belongs to ALL who live in it!

In 1652 a small company of employees of the Dutch East India Company were settled on the southern tip of Africa. Though the official language was Dutch, from this group of Dutchmen plus other settlers the Afrikaners developed on the African continent and the common language of the people was increasingly Afrikaans.

The Dutch settlers resented the British takeover. In 1795 the government made English the official language. Boers (as Afrikaans-speaking farmers were known) discontent with British rule out of the bitterness of defeat, formed NP in 1948.

In the face of overwhelming black superiority in numbers, the policy of apartheid was developed as an attempt to maintain white (Afrikaner) supremacy in South Africa. The NP government consistently and fully institutionalized racial separation. Though English was still an official language, in 1976 the Apartheid government declared that all black South African students had to be taught in Afrikaans (the language of the government at the time). I believe this was not the good way to do things!

History tells us that Afrikaners made a huge mistake by further condoning institutionalizing racial separation that was already in place from 1905 (British had separated public schools in the Cape Province into schools for Africans, Coloureds, Asians and Whites). After breaking away from the Dutch and having established their own language, they did not wanted to be further colonized by the British. Let us look at the history and the importance of the language!

Solution: Let us together as a nation gradually re-introduce Afrikaans at pre-school level because I still believe it could have major economic impact in future. Why? Because in countries like China, USA, N Korea etc. whom we do business with, no one speaks one if not all nine native languages in SA, BUT we are sure that English & Afrikaans is spoken in so many countries.

Kittykat, black students bright enough to do well enough at school to qualify for entry to university (and they are only a tiny minority) then face the additional hindrance of receiving tuition and examination in English -- a foreign language of which the vast majority of that elite qualifying minority have only a rudimentary grasp. Why not rather instruct them in their mother tongue, like the Afrikaners have done for almost a century? Why insist, for vanity's sake, that they alone be handcuffed to a language at which they're really rather poor? Seems perverse to me.

@Mimi Mak: It so happens that I did Naviagtion as a major at Stellenbosch University - learnt it in Afrikaans and wrote all my exams in Afrikaans. I also taught navigation and other subjects using "important nautical lingo" (not at US but elsewhere). As it happens, most of what passes as "important nautical lingo" in English is in fact pidgin Greek (to qote Toynbee) or pidgin 17th century Dutch (which is from whom the English learnt seafaring).

At stake here is not only the survival of Afrikaans as a language and part of Afrikaner culture, etc. The worst loss would be quality education to Afrikaans first language citizens. Hate-filled and incompetent politicians screaming and fighting against Afrikaans is merely exposing themselves - after all, their responsibility is rather to build and develop, including SA's educational capacities. But measuring against these criteria, they are planning to fail, yet again.

@jonlow: have you translated this question directly from afrikaans? it does not make sense in english!

Ps. I want to qualify my mother-tongue education preference. It must never be enforced, but by choice. Stellenbosch is clearly in an Afrikaans-speaking region. That should be the default language. The Free State (where I grew up) is clearly majority Sesotho and Afikaans (both of which I am fluent in), so why are these not the predominant languages for the Free State schools and FS University? Similarly, shouldn’t the Eastern Cape have English and isiXhosa, or dual-medium universities?

Having said that, I agree that the above is not always practical. For example, I have done my under-grad in Afrikaans at UNISA, with only English text books (no Afrikaans books were available in my chosen field). Grad and post-grad I have done completely in English by choice, as I thought that it made little sense to study Computer Science in any other language but English.

@Sello You say- "I don't think you can say yesteryear's government protected the cultures and languages that were practiced and spoken by black folk - it did not want anything to do with black languages and cultures"

That is simply not true. First your right, they instituted apartheid because as you say they "did not want to have to do with black languages", but then you say that follows that they did not want to protect them.

To apartheid strategists strong indigenous culture was very important, to counter the impact English and promote the idea of 'separate development'.

When I studied law at an Afrikaans apartheid university we had to take indigenous customary law as a subject.

Do yourself a favour and go and ask a few "makwerekweres", and they will tell you that indigenous languages feature way more prominently on SA radio etc than they do in other African countries.

This is not a legacy of the post 94 government, its a legacy of the apartheid government.

Millions was spent on the development of black music and culture, as long as it did rail against apartheid, in which case they acted really harshly. Some of the best knows artists that South Africa produced, like Lady Smith Black Mambazo, were 'discovered' by and promoted by apartheid SABC functionaries.

I'm not saying the motives were good. But this is what they did.

You can see the legacy of this even today - African language departments at former Afrikaans universities were and is much bigger than those at English white universities.

A qoute from yesterdays Business Day :

"“Culture for black people continues to be marginalised,” he said. “In a very twisted way African culture was more protected or heard as a voice during the apartheid years — and we have a black government.

“SABC is just one of the symptoms of what is happening in our country.”

He said in Germany one could always find a production in German, but in SA it was possible not to see a production in some of the African languages."

Who would want to attend an Afrikaans university anyway. they always were insular narrow places anyway. Not like Wits and UCT where you were taught how to think for yourslef.
As Some-one once said during orientation at WIts
What does RAU stand for " rejected applicants for Unisa"

Westhuizem: And you know this from experience?

@ Joe Joel and Kitty Kat,

You guys make some of the most salient points on this comment thread.

Firstly that Afrikaans universities (and schools) were created to exclude the rest of us non-Afrikaners from those establishments, and
Secondly that a minority is being allowed to manipulate the majority all over again.

There's a place for all our languages and cultures in South Africa, but this focus on protecting Afrikaans has been allowed to go on unquestioned for too long.

I can't understand why so many Afrikaners who are commenting here are in such a flat spin about this issue.

All my Afrikaans friends send their children to English schools because they feel that sending them to Afrikaans institutions excludes them from learning about other cultures and makes them think about everything from an Afrikaans point of view as opposed to a South African point of view. Maybe I'm friends with the wrong kind of Afrikaners, but I sure am happy that I'm not friends with any of these short-sighted, biased twerps who can't think further than their language or culture.

Khumalo: I'll repeat the constitution again:

"Everyone has the right to receive education in the official language or languages of their choice in public educational institutions where that education is reasonably practicable."



Stellenbosch does not exclude, as it is not a single medium university.

"There's a place for all our languages and cultures in South Africa, but this focus on protecting Afrikaans has been allowed to go on unquestioned for too long."

- Why do you want to kill off Afrikaans? You have the right to be educated in whatever language you speak, why not our kids?


"Excludes them from learning about other cultures and makes them think about everything from an Afrikaans point of view as opposed to a South African point of view."

Why are you not educating your kids about the 'afrikaans' culture by sending them to an Afrikaans school?

By the way, Afrikaans is as South African as it comes.

Khumalo: Afrikaners have a rich background and culture. Apartheid is merely a tiny fragment of it.

You would not know, but there is a monument in France, dedicated to the South Africans, that fended of repeated German counter attacks, and eventually fighting them off. The relentless Afrikaners fighting against Hitler.

A rich history of defeating the British in the 1st Boer war, and then, the first time the word 'Concentration camp' was used, was when the British imprisoned Afrikaner families, where 30,000 women and children died.

You didnt know this, I can guarantee you.

Why should your ignorance lead to the demise of the youngest language in the world?

Sinudeity@ yada yada yada,

You really are a funny guy in your jean pant, aren't you?

What a typically old-Afrikaner point of view you express: that no one is as educated or as "special" as you -- hence your statement about me not knowing anything about Afrikaners, me being ignorant etc. etc. blahdy blah.

Your repetitiveness is as irrelevant as your statements. Do you experience much success with such behaviour: ie: the more you blather on about something, the more important it will become? Rather astute tactic that.

Are you a member of any of the 23 boere-volk type organisations that your uncle Eugenie is trying to pull together for a Vaderland? Bet you are. Go on, put on whatshisname's song about De La Rey, unfurl die vier-kleur and let rip with nostalgia, my broer.

Ugh, why am I even bothering to stoop to your level? You know why? Of course you don't. It's cos I'm funnier than you, my liefie.

Pour yourself a shot of mampoer and chill out, and when you've stopped breathing fire hopefully you'll realise that the point I was trying to make (at the risk of being as annoyingly repetitive as you) is that education should be made accessible to all and discrimination hiding behind language shouldn't be tolerated.

I'm not going to address any of your other non-sensical accusations because I think I've lowered myself enough for one day. More is nog 'n dag.

Hope you have a lekker day sinu ... whatever-the-heck your name is!

PS: I wonder if any of the millions of people oppressed during apartheid (and the thousands killed during nationalist rule) would agree that it was a tiny fragment of South Africa's history. I think they might disagree with your estimation about how insignificant apartheid was.

Sinudeity @gmail.com on October 8, 2009, 1:52 pm

You never get tired of talking.

@ Sin
There we go the old siren song about how hard done by we were during the Boer War.
That is the used to justify all sorts of oppression far worse than the British Empire ever did.

Khumalo: Dont use 'apartheid' as blackmail for your point. Germany is still spoken around the world, irrespective of Hitler, the nazi's and WWII.

You are stereotyping, with your 'mampoer' and 'broederbond' en 'vierkleur', 'De La Rey'. Why, because I want the language and culture to flourish?

You will notice, I will never badmouth Zulu or Xhosa, or call it a simple language, or start stereotyping you. If there was a Zulu university, I would have defended its rights to remain too.

Where is the respect for other cultures?

Apartheid lasted for 50 years. And for how many years, have Afrikaans people been on the continent?

I do hope you have a lovely evening as well. I mean it.

Sinu-yada yada.

Last time I checked Germany was a country, not a language.

I wasn't bad-mouthing or sterotyping anyone. If you had a sense of humour, you might've found it funny and if you were as open-minded as you sometimes pretend to be, you might've replied with a message littered with equally funny utterances in any of our official languages (other than English and Afrikaans -- bet you can't do that, bet you're not conversant in any of our other official languages).

The point I was trying to make with the Afrikaans terms, but which was clearly lost on those people who think blinkers are fashionable attire, is that I know enough about Afrikaans and Afrikaners, and enjoy the language and the people -- I did this because you had accused me of wanting to kill off the taal because I didn't know anything about Afrikaans yada yada yada.

Anyway, I've said my bit and whether or not you get my point, I'm tiring of having to repeat myself or defend a different point of view.

Peace out broertjie!

Khumalo: Kade ungithuka kule forum, sengiakwazi ukobona uma kuyilaya :)

Hope to read you again in the near future.

Peace sussie.

Stellenbosch sucks ranked number 1000 in the world 1000 university

I'm sure this sinu is a Helen zille in drag!

How many Afrikaans universities took any stand at all against apartheid.
Nada, niks, none.
Sorry they were all trying to justify it with the same sort of platitudes we are hearing now from sin.
Afrikaans was foisted on us all and now is being relegated to it's own liitle niche. Trying to preserve AFrikaans universities is simply a way of mantaining racial exclusiveness

Van der Westhuizem: "How many Afrikaans universities took any stand at all against apartheid. Nada, niks, none." - You have NO facts to back up that statement.

During the referendum, the majority of white people, voted against the government, and that was, to unban the ANC, and to end apartheid.

I wish I knew, how many of them were varsity students.

Apartheid is dead.

Why do you want to punish the next generation of afrikers for this? Clearly, your decision in this, is out of hate, and nothing else.

So, we all have a free choice now in which language we want to be educated. Thats right. FREE CHOICE.

What rights, do you have, to prevent someone from doing this?
Even if the varsity is accomodating to english speaking folks?

PS, it isnt about preserving of 'Afrikaans' universities. Is there even such a thing left as an Afrikaans university? Its about preserving the language and culture.

And I will keep on repeating myself, until you can see past your own prejudices.

Spare us Sin
I am old enough to remember how Afrikaans was forced down everyone's throat.
Dubbing Miami Vice into Afrikaans. What was that but a deliberate attempt to prop up a language which just was not facing up to the fact that it was a parochial little Taal not an international language. How can you now justify trying to keep a national resource in the hands of a minority if not by being a dyed in the wool rascist. It was Pretoria and Stellenbosch who produced the intellectual support for the depradations of Apartheid. I am proud I went to Wits where we at least made a real stand against injustice.

Italians, Swedes, Portuguese, Greeks, Hungarians etc etc do not abandon their mother-tongue medium universities in favour of English-medium ones and attempt to educate their masses in a foreign second language. Africans have a crippling inferiority complex about their own mother-tongues and want to force Afrikaans-speakers (most of whom are not white) to lock step with them in their march of embarrassment. Afrikaans-speakers are living proof of how a humble kitchen-patois really CAN be turned into a fully-fledged academic language in the short space of one lifetime.

What about 'Rabubi'? Do you remember that?
That wasnt overdubbed in Afrikaans.

Apartheid is DEAD.

The students who graduated from apartheid afrikaans universities did so, 16+ years ago.

You keep mentioning the universities during apartheid, which has no relevance in a democratic South Africa, or to 18 year olds, who are entering university now!

Go read your posts! Its all about things that the afrikaners did 16+ years ago.

Do you think, that somehow apartheid lecturers have infected the universities, and are brainwashing the students?!

What is wrong with mother tongue education?

Like someone said, if you REALLY want to speak the most
spoken language in the world, then, why are our universities
not teaching Mandarin?

Afrikaans is in fact, an international language.

They speak it in Canada and Australia :)

SIn
Afrikaans in Canada or Australia won't last a generation that I am sure of.

But it will last for centuries in the Western Cape.

Many people's arguements appear to be based on the assumption that Afrikaans is the home language of only white people.

This assumption is incorrect. I would suggest that either you change the fundamental assumption of your argument, or let your arguement stand as fundamentally flawed.

----

@Isabella Van der Westhuizen -
Your arguement appears extremely personal. You did not like having Afrikaans "forced down everyone's throat" or having an American tv programme dubbed into Afrikaans. So, your argument is that an entire culture should be allowed to die out because you did not like the imposition on you personally? (This is realising that Afrikaans is not exclusive to a single race).

And to again quote you:
"As Some-one once said during orientation at WIts/ What does RAU stand for "rejected applicants for Unisa" "

Nice. Nothing like some poor-taste jokes & derogatory slurring at other people's choices. I see WITS did well in teaching you love, tolerance, broad-minded & lateral thinking, and respect of people's choices. Though, I would not blame the institution for your insulting nonsensical argument here.

----

@Khumalo - "Firstly that Afrikaans universities (and schools) were created to exclude the rest of us non-Afrikaners from those establishments"
But I was accepted by the university and included and loved my time there. I am a non-Afrikaans speaker. How are they creating this exclusion, if they are still quite willing to accept non-Afrikaans speakers?
It might require some effort from the person accepted in, although, the uinversity systems still have gone out of their way to ensure the effort is supported & not overwhelming.

-----

In what way is the University of Stellenbosch creating racial segregation? The university wishes to ensure that Afrikaans writing, music and other forms of creativity are recognisd, rewarded & preserved. That its history is researched and preserved.

We should not believe that this is a dangerous pursuit... it is one of the roles of a university in a country.

Why break down one thing because it would be too difficult or expensive to build up everything? We should rather be asking if we are doing the same for the other amazing cultures and languages in South Africa & finding ways, funding and institutions to ensure that our unique groups & creative cultures are preserved and championed.

OK, lets try this again for our challenged proponents of an "Afrikaans university". Nic S, Jon Low, Sinudeity,Wessel van Rensburg, Heinz Grubsner ...
The net effect of making U of Stellenbosch a "Afrikaans single medium" university is that blacks (mainly Africans) will be marginalized. You cannot dispute this fact since most Africans and other blacks have an intense aversion to what Afrikaans represented during apartheid. To argue otherwise is insulting to everyones intelligence. If you really don't want your kids to mix with blacks at universities then I'd suggest you move to Afrikaner enclave of Oranje, where you can get the education you deserve.

Afrikaners had numerous opportunities to integrate schools and universities on THEIR terms during the final years of apartheid, but they stubbornly refused to. Had they done this, they could have had a leg to stand on now. Now they need to figure out pretty quickly how to work cooperatively with our black government to retain some classes in Afrikaans or risk being overrun by the momentum that English gained as the de facto language of international business.

Judging by some of the responses here in favor of turning Stellenbosch into an Afrikaans univeristy, I think Afrikaners are in for some rough times ahead to hang onto their language and culture since they are unable to grasp the seriousness of their predicament.

Harris: Who said anything about making Stellenbosch a single medium university?

Your entire argument is based on apartheid hate as well towards the afrikaners. The 18 year olds finishing matric now, are not friggin architects of apartheid.

You Are more than happy to have ALL South African cultures and languages die off, to be replaced with English?

"I think Afrikaners are in for some rough times ahead to hang onto their language and culture since they are unable to grasp the seriousness of their predicament." - Same with all languages and cultures in South Africa.

The argument is NOT to keep Stellenbosch an Afrikaans university, but to keep Afrikaans as a choice language to educate students in.

Do you remember the school in Ermelo, that won the appeal to keep it a single medium Afrikaans school?

Do you remember how the principle was fired, for not bowing into being victimised by the government?

Let the oppressed not turn into the oppressors. Something Mandela said in his inauguration speech.

"Now they need to figure out pretty quickly how to work cooperatively with our black government"

ALL I ever hear is, why are white people not coming to the party.
The question is, why are you not trying to meet us halfway?

Blacks will be "marginalised" and disadvantaged at ANY university where tuition is not provided in their own mother tongue. Most of the potential university-going population of the Western Cape are brown-skinned and Afrikaans-speaking. Stellenbosch suits their needs ideally.

I think we have reached the end of the show here. No one is saying anything new. There is widespread consensus that Stellenbosch cannot exist as if they are there to serve the narrow interests of a small minority. Hence the HALLS OF LEARNING AND CULTURE MUST BE OPEN TO ALL!
Blade, you gave been given a vote of confidence to implement the resolution.

Kitty kat: No end of the show here. No 'vote of confidence' has been reached. If you do try, you will simply lose in the constitutional courts.

It would seem to me that the days of Afrikaans at institutions of higher learning are over. Like most SA languages, it must studied as a language but not used as a medium of instruction.

I am waiting for the DTI Minister to also see to it that products packages and containers are labeled and written in all South African languages failing which it must be written in English only as it is well spoken and understood by majority of the South African population.

I dont know history that much but I know for sure that Afrikaans was the language of oppression.It is still the language of those who feel they want their own Afrikanerdom in the land of South Africans. BRAVO BLADE NZIMANDE.

The "halls of learning" are firmly closed, and have always been closed, to the overwhelming majority --- those simply not clever enough to get in. Reciting sweet but meaninglessly empty mantras doesn't look good. It looks stupid.

And English isnt a language of oppression?!

Anybody who wants to prevent Afrikaans from being taught at schools/universities are NO BETTER than the apartheid oppressors.

Dont you realise that?

Wow - this article has way too many comments, but I find them all very interesting. For those of you who say Afrikaans has no use, let's just adopt English - you too are mistaken. If you follow that arguement to its logical conclusion, we should scrap all SA's official languages - and just make Mandarin the official one. It will save us trillions on yuan into the future, on changing road names, and all other official documents, placenames, and even our own names. It will enable our country to do business with the fastest growing economy on the planet - the country that will very probably own the whole world in the next 50-100 years. This of course nullifies all the comments on the site, and the real question is, when do we adopt Mandarin as the official language?

Stellenbosch does not exclude students based on language - they teach in Afrikaans. If you choose to go to SUN, then you are choosing to be taught in Afrikaans and thus need to become proficient in the language. Similarly, if one chose to go abroad to study in say Germany or France, you would need to become proficient in those languages.

Furthermore, the language policy at SUN actually states that if more than 50% of students in a course speak a language other than Afrikaans, lectures will be provided in that language, hence the increase in lectures in English at SUN over the past few years and the increase in English-speaking students - not sure which came first ...a classic "chicken and egg" scenario.

To my mind, the language-policy at SUN actually makes it THE ONLY university in the country to actually make provision for 'an individuals right to study in any language' - sadly, logistically speaking I doubt it will ever be a reality to study in any language, but at least at SUN it is a possibility, more than any other University in SA can say...

Maybe, if more African students chose to attend SUN, in 10-20 years, Xhosa could very well be the main medium of education there!?

I actually find articles like this, and, even more so, the comments from them, very sad. They show that a significant number of people will never forgive and will tear down whatever they can with vindictive hate. A bit like Israel and Palestine, Hutu and Tutsi, no one will back down, the scratched sore will never heal and may well erupt into a cancer that can kill. Think Zimbabwe. So for those who hate based on race, and Dave H, Thami, 2boy, Isabella come to mind, when you reap the bloody whirlwind, be happy. I won't be - I'm sickened already, apartheid was bad enough, it's mutant stepchild is more dangerous and flourishes in a time when we should know better. Sorry Nelson, we didn’t even do our best.

Sorry I only stumbled on this now, but has anyone on this site paid any attention to recent pronouncements from academics at the Language Lab at Stellenbosch University, to the effect that many Afrikaans students choose to write assignments in English, even if given the opportunity to write assignments and tests in Afrikaans? The reason was given as that these students think that it makes more sense to use English rather than Afrikaans given the job environment. Certainly, in my classes at SU (I am a lecturer), up to 80% of Afrikaans students choose to do assignments in English, not Afrikaans. Granted, my course is the E-option (predominantly English), however, I hear similar tales from other lecturers, teaching courses where the T, and even the A-option (predominantly Afrikaans) is used. I am afraid many students from Afrikaans homes choose English as language of "official" communication at SU. Also, in my experience, many Afrikaans students also do not read Afrikaans published works, even as they profess to want to keep Afrikaans as the predominant language at SU.

For further clarification:

T option, the use of Afrikaans and English in approximately equal proportions in one class. Class material in Afrikaans and English.

A option, teaching predominantly in Afrikaans, class material in Afrikaans and English where affordable and possible.

E option, teaching predominantly in English, class material in English and Afrikaans where affordable and possible.

South Africa has 11 official languages. I'm Xhosa, I can't speak the non-Nguni languages. To communicate with people who can't speak Xhosa, I use English. Even when I have to speak with people outside of SA, I speak English. English is the most important language in the world, not Afrikaans (sorry Afrikaners)! English should be used as a medium of instruction as it will help South Africans communicate better with non-South Africans for business purposes and better the country! Afrikaners seem to think that everyone is out to get them, this is not about you at all. Its about whats best for South Africans. South Africa doesn't have the resources (and probably never will) to establish universities in South African native languages! Our duty now is to improve the universities we have and make them some of the best institutions in the world and all South Africans should have the choice of going to any without any barriers.

How is making English a medium of instruction in Stellenbosch University killing Afrikaans and the culture of Afrikaners? Teaching those Stellenbosch students in English will actually help them, they will communicate better with the rest of South Africans, unless they intend on communicating with Afrikaners only. I repeat, Afrikaners must preserve their language the same way other South Africans preserve theirs, just because I am taught in English it does not mean that my language is being killed. I repeat, all that Afrikaners want is to be separated from blacks and non-Afrikaners. What's next? There must be Afrikaans shops because Afrikaners shop better in their language? Nxa, yazi you are irritating me. No one is trying to destroy you, this will help you communicate better with the world, I know Verwoed told you that Afrikaans is the most important language, he lied, English is!

Guys you can try very hard to justify why we must keep Afrikaans at Stellies, but we know that you just want to continue the legacy of apartheid that Verwoed, Hertzog (wateva), etc taught you. Oh Hellen agrees to keeping stellies strictly for Afrikaners? Since she is the President(lol) of Western Cape, is she gonna invest money in ensuring that other schools in the WC are using Xhosa as a medium of instruction and perhaps start a Xhosa University? ofcourse not, only Afrikaans should be preserved, phewwww, i liked that woman, i am not so sure now, she just wants to separate South Africa!

John Low
Most African parents want their children to be educated in English so they can be world citizens, not parochial self referential goldfish.
Mother tongue was propagated by the Nats to keep blacks semi-literate and to exagerate difference as those who keep crying for ongoing Afrikaans universities at the tax payers expense keep demanding.
Eish aparthedi was bad and Afrikaans was an integral part of it. Now we are advocating genocide because we don't want AFrikaans as a medium of instruction. Donning the victim mantle is an old trick but I am afraid it does not wash

@Isabella
what does most african parents have to do with most afrikaans parents? you do not speak for us isabella. mother tongue was propagated by the nats on all cultures. but now we just want to have our kids educated in our language. without forcing it on you like you are tyring to force english on my kids donning teh victims mantle? thats what you have been doing this every single damn time you opened your yap trap your shaka massacred thousands of poeple and forced them to talk zulu therefore we must ban zulu out of south afirca. isidingo must only be in english accoridng to you

"Mother tongue" isn't propagated by any political party. Mother tongue is propagated by your own mother, hence the name. By the time you're old enough to go to school, it's probably the only tongue you know, and for the rest of your life it will always be the one tongue you know best. All those other imposed tongues you learn will only be the add-on extras. And everybody -- black, white or brindled -- learns more easily in their own authentic first-language mother-tongue. Afrikaans-speakers know that, as do Greeks, Portuguese, Icelanders, Swedes, Italians, Russians, Romanians, Croatians and any number of mother-tongue speakers of languages which are not widely-spoken outside their own homeland.

Westhuizen: "Donning the victim mantle is an old trick" - Yep, government uses it ALL the time. It has also been the basis of most of the arguments you've given.

Do you think somehow, that someone who wasnt educated in english, wount be able to speak the language?

I seem to be doing quite well.

As for saying, that afrikaans single medium universities will be used to segregate racial groups in SA, please note that Stellenbosch is not, and Im getting so sick of repeating this, a single medium university. Your kid will learn some afrikaans. And why not? I can speak some zulu.

You say, that we will have to fund these afrikaans universities at the tax payers expense. Of course. I pay taxes. Government is bleeding billions to corruption, what would a tiny fraction compare to funding such an institution?

This is not something Im going to give up on. For every comment you post, I will post a rebuttal.

Linguistic nationalists beat the same drum throughout the world.
Whether it is forcing the government to pay a vast fortune to prop up Gaelic in Scotland Welsh in Wales, French in Quebec or Afrikaans here it is the same old story. Merely a divisive way of keeping jobs available for a closed group.
It used to be said that English South African writers had to make it in the world before making it at home whereas Afrikaans writers made it at home without making it in the world. Why was that because the government spent vast ammounts on propping up Afrikaans Taal and Letterkund. Where is FAK these days I wonder. Every library from Pofadder to Pitsonderwater had ten copies of every Afrikaans book ever published. That is the sort of behaviour that is thankfully no longer part of teh landscape and I for one am glad about that.

"Linguistic nationalists" is mythical. People all over the world actually LIKE their own mother-tongue. Quite sensibly they prefer it to someone else's mother tongue and, indubitably, they perform better academically, legally and socially in their own tongue than in someone else's. The current SA regime saw fit to have eleven languages declared "official" and not only one, and they therefore voluntarily assumed the duty of BUILDING UP those languages which are still underdeveloped and bring them up to the level of the two fully-developed ones, viz. English and Afrikaans. They are not mandated to try to tear any official language down until it is as underdeveloped as the nine African languages. There should be ten copies of every book written in isiXhosa, isiZulu etc etc available for free borrowing in every town library and the regime can -- should -- learn lessons in exactly how to build up languages from the excellent work done by the FAK. Breaking something down is easy, lazy and mindlessly destructive. It's only the pleasure of idiots and morons.

Now I am a moron.
Dear Dear.
No-one is saying you cannot speak the language of your choice but it should be a free market.
If you can get enough people to read an Afrikaans book or watch a movie in Afrikaans to make it economically viable fine.
You people are all expecting the rest of us to cross subsidize your linguistic fantasies. There's the rub my fine friends.
How much tax payers money did FAK and all it's associated bodies use up over the years.
My mother came from a family of immigrants. Her home language was neither English nor Afrikaans. She was educated all the way up to Universityin English and has never regretted it in the slightest. How many young Indian's still speak Gujerati?
Not many, they prefer an international language.
If you want to form your own language ghetto do so by all means but pay for it yourselves and do not use it as a means of keeping others out of South African institutions.

This debate has been going on in different parts of the world for centuries whenever more than one language has been declared "official".
It is fun to read the comments though.
Amused but not taking it seriously.

Dual medium has in fact attracted a market segment that the university is not supposed to cater for: large numbers of white English-speakers, of whom half cannot or will not become proficient in Afrikaans. Between 1998 and 2009 the proportion of English-speaking undergraduate students has doubled from 18% to 36%. Some flee from the formerly white English universities because of the growing black presence. Others do not get a place there. At Stellenbosch, Afrikaans students outperform English students by a significant margin in all but one faculty.

See Giliomee has hit the nail on the head.
English speaking racists go to Stellenbosch to stay away from Blacks at English Universities. Or else they go to Stellenbosch because they could not get into an English University.
Case closed

Isabella: "At Stellenbosch, Afrikaans students outperform English students by a significant margin in all but one faculty." - Could it be because they got their education in their mother tongue? What was the one faculty by the way.

I would like to know, which varsity you graduated from, seeing as how, you can say with certainty that, 'English speaking racists go to Stellenbosch to stay away from Blacks' and other made up facts.

I say again:

"Everyone has the right to receive education in the official language or languages of their choice in public educational institutions where that education is reasonably practicable." - South African constitution

Do you remember awhile back about the government forcing the single medium afrikaans school in ermelo to switch? And the the government lost the case in the appeals court, allowing the school to remain a single medium afrikaans school.

Simple facts and truths about the above case, will never be mentioned. Like, the school requested english teachers to teach the 9 or so english students, but the goverment never sent them, nor did they supply them with english textbooks.

Im surprised you havent managed to close down the German school in Joburg yet. Funny how Germany/Russia/China/Cuba etc. educates students in their mother toungue. Yet, somehow you think its a bad idea.

Isabella, you called yourself a moron. All I have to do is agree with you on that score. As for uplifting the African languages to the level of English and Afrikaans, you cannot be serious in just leaving it to the market. There HAS to be ACTIVE intervention by quangos like FAK equivalents, using exactly the same logic which drives "affirmative action". Left to the market, the disadvantaged will never overcome their disadvantage. So African languages need affirmative ACTION. Like the publishing and distribution of books in these vernaculars. Like having colleges and universities teaching undergraduates in their familiar, African mother-tongue, just like students (of any race) who happen to have English or Afrikaans as their authentic mother-tongue are able to do.

That is a CONSTRUCTIVE solution, unlike the moronic destructive "solution" posed by, well, the morons.

"Dual medium has in fact attracted a market segment that the university is not supposed to cater for..."

An Afrikaans-medium university is SUPPOSED (one supposes) to cater for the Afrikaans-speaking market.

I have NO problem with that.

Afrikaans-speakers of ANY race who are smart enough to win a place at the university must be welcome to study there. In Afrikaans.

If English-speaking whites (or any race,really) want to study there, they should be prepared to study in Afrikaans and not expect tuition in English. And the same applies to students of any other mother-tongue and/or race.

A university should stick only to the people it it SUPPOSED to teach, to use your terminology. To think an Afrikaans university ought to teach Xhosas in English is, frankly, ridiculous. And leave race right out of it -- it's a red herring.

Sin I was quoting Profeesor Giliomee's article directly.
So that is where I get my facts. I find this concern for the Afrikaans speaking people of colour quite touching. Perhaps we have forgotten our history.
Who was it who deliberatley removed the coloreds from teh votiers roll back in the 1950's
Afrikaners always liked the coloreds as long as they were good agterryers and all that. It now seems we are deliberatley using language to create a new block against the Swart Gewaar. Lets us keep blacks out of the Western Cape. Shades of the old preferential empolyment of coloreds in the Western Cape.
Same old siren song I am afraid.

The US rose to prominence because it had a single langauge. English
It did not matter if you were Irish, German, Italian, Chinese you all spoke English and became American.
Sure you could keep your own culture alive and develop it as a means of communication, but you were primarily American.
Now this is teh complete antithesis of Afrikaner nationalism which did not want one nation but many separate nations.
Stellenbsoch as with all the other Afrikaans univerities actively propagated this approach.
So the plea now to develop Afrikaans as a langauge of higher education must be seen for what it is. An attempt to propagate a nationalism which seeks to divide rather than unite. By all means have a vibrant Afrikaans and Nederlands Lanaguage Department, encourage Afrikaans preforming arts but do not use it as a langauge of instruction for science and maths and engineering. Use the internationla langauge for that.

Isabella: You make so many assumptions 'keep blacks out of wcape', 'It now seems we are deliberatley using language to create a new block against the Swart Gewaar'. You are making this a political issue.

You spew emotional hate speech and assumptions, based on things that happened 'back in the 1950's'. Please dont stir up apartheid emotions to justify your points.

There are more than 300 afrikaans books published in South Africa a year. Its an academic language.

Why should we stop developing the language?

Is afrikaans being forced on you here in 2009?

Isabella: Good point with regards to the US and a single de facto language.

Personally I think the US developed differently from South Africa, the 1st settlers were purely english speaking, plus they never gave the native languages and cultures opportunities to flurish.

As for having a de facto international trading language, how do you explain the americans using the emperical system when the rest of the world uses the metric system?

Isabella you are raising good points there. To those who are suggesting that the government introduces Universities that offers education in other 9 official languages, WHERE THE HELL IS THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO GET MONEY TO DO THAT? While the gov is trying to sort out this stellies issue, can they ensure that AFRIKAANS is removed from all official documents, unless they also translate the documents to the NATIVE languages. Why is Afrikaans getting precedence over SOUTH AFRICAN NATIVE LANGUAGES? All official documents have Afrikaans. Why? Why not English and Zulu? Why not English and Sotho? Why always English and Afrikaans? Why? The government must sort this out, we are no longer living in the apartheid days, other languages must also be given a chance! Its been too long living in the shade of Afrikaans.

More red herrings in the language debate -- the removal of coloured Afrikaans-speakers from the voters roll and the preference Afrikaans-speaking coloureds enjoyed in the Western Cape apartheid labour market had nothing to do with the Afrikaans language they spoke. You're foolishly conflating apartheid with Afrikaans and rolling it all up into one ball. Apartheid was all about a distinctive white skin, and not a common mother-tongue shared with a majority of brown-skinned Western Capeys. It's a total moving of goalposts.

The point you are determined to miss is that millions of non English mother-tongue speakers all over the world have their own schools, universities and international businesses where their own mother-tongue is almost exclusively used and where English, or anything one might call a "world language" is conspicuously absent. THEY, like Afrikaans-speakers, have developed fully-fledged academic-technical languages which they prefer using because -- hey -- they're good at their first language but less good, or even totally rotten, at their second and third tongues.

That's the right thing to do. Play to your strengths.

Most black schoolkids aren't even taught English by a proper mother-tongue English speaker but by someone whose home language is isiXhosa or another African language. Such watered-down second-language instruction in the second-language you are trying to learn really is inadequate. At university they come up against educated English-speaking intellectuals for whom English is their mother tongue and for whom the oversimplified pidgin-English spoken and written in essays by that African schoolkid is just pure gibberish, while the "high-faluting" idiomatic technical/academic language of sheer bafflement used in lectures by Professor John Bull is really only rather high-faluting to a non-native speaker of English.

Then when Roger Dodge from Bishops sails through with 90% and Sipho Dlamini from Langa gets 12%, the race-auditors cry foul and accuse Prof Bull of "racism".

Let Sipho learn in his mother tongue. Aim to have a proper Xhosa-medium university in the Eastern Cape, a Zulu one in KZN, a Sotho one in Bloemfontein and a Tswana one in Kimberley or Mmabatho up and running in 10 years from now. That's roughly how long it took from having the first tentative manned space flight to having a man confidenly walking on the moon and coming home afterwards.

If there is the will, there is a well-trodden path to teach you how to do exactly that right under your noses. The shining example is how the Afrikaners did it all so well and all so dazzlingly quickly.

@ Jon Low : The countries you are talking about are countries that have only one language as an official language. When you have a diverse country like South Africa, thats a bit impractical. remember that blacks were denied good education by the apartheid system, where do you think we are gonna get "Xhosa speaking lecturers?" Translation is not a problem at all, the problem would be getting qualified lecturers who speak our native languages. When Afrikaners were getting education, blacks were busy fighting for their freedom in their native land!

Stellies was established by the government which had only a few priorities: promoting Afrikaans and Afrikaners, chasing blacks to the dry homelands (Transkie, Ciskei, Natal, etc)[which is what Jon Low is suggesting today so that they can have Stellies all to themselves], attending to social issues that affected Afrikaners only, giving everything that is Afrikaner-related precedence over anything! This current government has different priorities and many problems to deal with, treating all citizens equally!

Do you realise that if we do have this segregation that you are suggesting we will have more problems, communication problems. That would mean an Afrikaner would not be employed in a Xhosa firm, a Sotho would not be employed in a Zulu firm etc. That way Afrikaners would live in the cities and all these blacks live in the homelands, no roads, no electricity (just like in the apartheid days) etc...ha ha ha ha ha ha Afrikaners think they are clever! Jon Low's response to this paragraph: Well the blacks should develop these homelands and make them beautiful cities, yes they must stay there and not come anywhere near Stellenbosch! (Verwoed would be very happy)

Joe Joel: The infrastructure is already there for teaching Afrikaans at universities. The teachers, the professors, everything.

"Why is Afrikaans getting precedence over SOUTH AFRICAN NATIVE LANGUAGES?" - Why are you not making more noise about developing Xhosa/Zulu to become academic languages?

Just face the facts, Afrikaans people love their language, and will work for it and develop it.

All you are showing is a 'if I cant have it, why should you' attitude.

Jon
The day you can order a cup of coffee in Paris in Xhosa or Afrikaans is teh day I will agree with Afrikaans at Stellenbosch.
Many samll countries such as teh Dutch and Denmark frequently use English in their academic education.
I have done ward rounds in AMsterdam not a word of Dutch only in the tea room.
WHy because these countries realize that they need to be part of the world.
I would rather work with a Dutch or German SHO in the NHS as they are all trained fluently in ENglish. It is a heart sink momnet when a Greek or Italian pitches up and you feel like you are speaking to Manuel in Fawlty Towers. Is that what you want for Xhosa and Zulu students here in SA. The fact of the matter is that some langaugses ( Czech, Greek, DUtch) are local small langauges. Others for historical reasons (ENglish, Spanish, French and even Portuguese) are spoken by vast massses of people. Being conversant in one of those languages is a passport to the world. DO SOuth African Jews hold on to Yiddish or Indians onto Gujerati. No they see them as ghetto languages. Unfortunately Afrikaans is a small localied langauge and not a passport to teh world. I would raher my children learn Poyrtuguses and French at school than AFrikaans. Those are both AFrican languages.
The issue of the removal of teh coloreds from teh voters roll is very germane to this topic. It is all very well to bring up the issue of the Boer War it seems but not other aspects of our history.
I can assure you I know about the Great Trak. It was taught ad nauseum at high school. I had to find out about the removal of teh colored voters by mysefl. I thnak WIts for that. I am pretty sure it would not have been taught at STellenbosch

Westhuizem: "Many samll countries such as teh Dutch and Denmark frequently use English in their academic education." - But not all the time? What about Germany? What about China?

"I would raher my children learn Portuguese and French at school than Afrikaans. Those are both African languages." - African languages? Why do you say that? Afrikaans is an African language. Africa is in the name.

German and Chinese is spoken by enough people to mean you can use it as a language of business and science. Afrikaans simply is not that widely spoken.
Sin you and Jon are really pushing a nationalist agenda. Look at Eastern Europe when they were ruled by the Austro Hungarian Empire they tolerated diversity in their unity. So small cultures did not feel threatened. When they replaced the overarching Empire they unleashed nationalism which resulted in a century of bitter war genocide. I am a Serb you are a Croat. Now that is what apartheid tried to do. Look what happened. Nationalism leads to intolerance and division. So Afrikaans needs to redefine it's role as an important minority but not a dominant one. Three hundred books a year is rather insignificant compared to teh number of books published in English, French or Spanish. As an aside even France is battling to keep people interested in French. WHy because it is no longer the language of trade or diplomacy. ENglish is for better or worse. So if the French cannot do it why do you want to try for Afrikaans or XHosa. Leave Afrikaans nationalism and adopt the world view of Jan Smuts who wanted Afrikaners to be part of the world not part of a ghetto. When I work with young Afrikaans staff in the NHS they speak English and are happy to. They are still Afrikaans but they have a world view. You cannot do a locum in the UK and refer to the large bowel as "die dikderm" Just does not work.
I assure you that Greeks and Italians who come to the UK to work with poor ENglish really battle.

Westhuizem: 'Sin you and Jon are really pushing a nationalist agenda.' - I just want the language to be further developed, I want the number of afrikaans books written to increase, not decrease.

You are falsely assuming that something like, an afrikaans educated engineer cannot function in an international environment. That wouldn't explain why they are contracted the US and other foreign countries all the time.

As it stands, being educated in your mother tongue, significantly improves your grades. And there is no evidence, that it puts you at a disadvantage internationally.

Afrikaans can be considered an international language:

Afrikaans is an Indo-European language derived from Dutch and thus classified as Low Franconian West Germanic. It is mainly spoken in South Africa and Namibia, with smaller numbers of speakers living in Botswana, Angola, Swaziland, Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Zambia, Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada, Taiwan and Argentina. Due to emigration and migrant labour, there are possibly over 100,000 Afrikaans speakers in the United Kingdom, with other substantial communities found in Brussels,Amsterdam, Perth, Mount Isa, Toronto and Auckland.

Afrikaans and Dutch are largely mutually intelligible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans

Why order coffee in Xhosa or Afrikaans when in Paris? Speak phrasebook French, just as what the English-speakers have to do to get anything off a Frenchman. Studying for your science or commerce or law degree in English at Stellenbosch won't have advanced your coffee-buying skills in Paris by one iota.

Try studying any undergraduate course other than English Lit at the Sorbonne without being fully proficient in French and you'll do more than struggle. You'll fail, even if you are a fluent, articulate mother-tongue Englishman.

An Afrikaans-speaking industrial chemist who studied for his/her B.Sc and M.Sc in an Afrikaans-medium university, and a isiXhosa-speaking auditor who studied for his/her B.Com in a Xhosa-medium university will have found their studies to be MUCH easier than if they struggled with the language of instruction in addition to the rigours of their arcane study material. And, once qualified, they'll be every bit as good a South African chemist and a South African auditor as an English-speaker doing those courses at English-medium schools like UCT or Wits.

They really don't meed to study chemistry in English so that one day they might order a cup of coffee in France.

That's about as absurd an argument in favour of unilingualising all SA universities as I'll ever hope to find.

The Afrikaans universities had huge amounts of money pumped into them to make the viable. Same with Afrikaans art and literature.Yet most educated Afrikaners are fluent in English. Why because if they want to perform on the international stage they need to be fluent in English. Whether they are preforming as rugby players or as engineers.
The African languages were never supported as much. But what is the point of trying to make a small localized albeit vibrant language compete with an international language of commerce and science. It is pointless. It is nonsense to suggest that not being taught in mother tongue is any way harmful in fact it is good. The obsession with Mother tongue is a phenomenon of Nationalist Afrikaans academics based at you guessed it Pretoria and Stellenbosch. The same universities that strove to use anthropology to divide up South Africans into neat racial categories for apartheid. You know Cape Malay was different to "Other Colored"
The reason the US and Australia are successful are because they have one language and everyone is an Aussie or an American. Whether your ancestors were Greek or Latvian. Afrikaans in Canada and Australia will not survive the first generation.
Why do the Chinese in America speak English. They don't hold onto Mandarin.
I will say it again but the use of Afrikaans as a language of education is a ploy to keep out Africans. Most Africans want to be world citizens and so want to be proficient in English. If I remember correctly in 1976 they did not want Afrikaans but they did want English.

T

My Dear Jon and Sin.
Seems we will have to agree to differ.
It is pointless arguing with you.
Seems the process Prof Gilliomee is describing is well advanced and will proceed at pace. I am pretty sure Afrikaans will be replaced as a medium of instruction over then next twenty years. Personally I won't miss it at all.
I do think that the Afrikaans academics will have been the authors of their own misfortune though. English does not need any-one to protect it.
Three hundred books a year indeed.
I think the equivalent in ENglish is 300 books an hour.

Isabella: You make so many assumptions. Prof Gilliomee is not the only opinion out there. Your disgust for the afrikaans language in all your posts are prominent. Which doesnt give credibility to any of your arguments Im afraid.

Must be your WITS education, which taught you so much respect for other South African cultures.

There are more afrikaans authors in South Africa, then there are english authors. More afrikaans music than local english music each year.

As for 1976, I can relate. As I do not want english forced down my throat. Afrikaans was forced down your throat. How is that any different from what you are trying to impose?

If afrikaans dies out in 20 years time, then thats fine. But not because you tried to kill the language off.

At the end of the day, being taught in afrikaans, is protected by the constitution. So unless you change that, theres nothing you can do.

Language diversity is not a zero-sum equation. Constructively advancing and enhancing and uplifting left-behind African languages which have always proudly served many millions of mother-tongue speakers does NOT have to come at the expense of the only two fully-advanced mother-tongue languages deemed "official" in SA by the ruling regime -- English and Afrikaans.

Yes,it will take a whole lot of effort to uplift isiZulu and isiXhosa and seSotho to be as developed as Afrikaans currently is. It will, no doubt, cost a considerable amount of money too.

But, if the day dawns when a Zulu can be taught in his beloved fully-comprehensible isiZulu all the way up to his or her Ph.D and beyond, the returns on that investment will be absolutely massive --- well in excess of the seed capital spend.

Billions is being wasted on black students who get into universities where they are taught in a foreign language which they battle to understand and cannot fully express their thoughts. These students fail in vast droves -- not because they are simply too dumb to pass, but because the burden of learning in a foreign language is just that one extra bridge too far to cross. Giving them extra lessons, bridging courses and/or using a sort of dumbed-down pidgin English is simply not working. They will never be as fluent, as idiomatic, as mother-tongue competent as those lucky enough to have English as their authentic mother tongue -- and, let's face it squarely -- this lucky-born elite is overwhelmingly white and European.

If English is to be the sole medium of instruction, you're effectively really creating a new favoured racist white elite even if you didn't ever intend to!

Nobody is disputing the great utility of being able to converse in English at any level -- from ordering coffee to designing a rocket. But you do not have to learn physiology or calculus or quantity surveying in English at university to be an utterly competent physiologist, mathematician or surveyor, even if you studied all of it in Serbo-Croatian or Danish or Xhosa. If you're living and working in the region of your birth where everyone speaks your language, it's actually a clear advantage.

If, for whatever reason, you elect to live and work in an area where your home language is NOT spoken, you can easily acquire skills in the new tongue at a conversational level but still function perfectly in your profession. Cuban doctors working among the Pedi can't speak sePedi at first, and the vast bulk of their Pedi patients can't speak Spanish or even English, but they get the job of doctoring done all the same. After a decade of immersion, Dr Miguel Luiz (MB ChB, Habana) will still not be fluent in sePedi, but he'd have picked up a smattering to make him better than he was on day one. But he'd be excellent back in Havana where you don't need any English at all, really.

The notion of teaching everyone in English just to facilitate their leaving SA with all their expensive education so they can converse easily in English as they ply their trade overseas is really pretty ludicrous. Better to train them in their own tongue because the great majority of them are going to go on living and working in the country and region of their birth.

300 books a year (even if it is just a made-up thumbsuck statistic) is almost enough for you to read a new book every day -- quite a big ask!

But poor old isiZulu, with a whopping 8 million native speakers, won't even manage 30 books a year. Smaller so-called "official" languages like Venda won't even manage three books a year, if any at all, even if their total mother-tongue population matches or outnumbers Afrikaans-speakers.

Something needs to be done about that, I'd say?

Well gentlemen, unfortunately for you education policy is no longer in the hands of Afrikaans Nationalists but in the hands of Blade Nzimande and the ANC.
Reserving a national resource for a small segment of the population is no longer considered a good idea by most right thinking people in this country.
The idea is that the doors of learning should be open to all. Not just Afrikaners

Westhuizem: Its not reserving a national resource, its expanding and further developing it. It might be in the hands of Blade, but, the constitution trumps him.

Like I said, refer to the Ermelo single medium Afrikaans school. The goverment resorted to all kinds of tactics, firing the principle, overrode the governing body. But in the end, they lost it in the South African courts, and the school is again, a single medium Afrikaans school.

"considered a good idea by most right thinking people in this country." - but Blade is left.

You always quote things like 'most right thinking people', but, you have no proof to back it up. Your view, does not equal most people in the country.

"unfortunately for you education policy is no longer in the hands of Afrikaans Nationalists but in the hands of Blade Nzimande and the ANC."

Calling us 'nationalists' doesnt make it true, merely used in your argument to bring up apartheid emotions.

Dont do to us, what the apartheid government did to you.

University doors are never "open to all". Only to the smart kids. It is by definition elitist, as only the elite get in and only the elite of that elite graduate.

I don't like the utilitarian argument in favour of Afrikaans. Who cares whether Afrikaans or Venda are languages of business.

I'm a romantic - Afrikaans is one of my darlings. Darlings thrive on love and care and attention.

Just on the Afrikaans at the expense of other local langauges argument - this comes from "South Africa, a new history"

"By 1948 the education of black people was still for more than 90% an extension of the church and missionary enterprise. Illiteracy was widespread. Although a few mission schools provided good education, the overall state of black education was extremely poor: only 3% of blacks had received post-primary school education by 1952 and only 8 488 blacks had a matriculation qualification. By contrast, more than 40 000 whites passed the highest school standard every year. In 1947 there were only four coloured high schools and 182 candidates who sat the examination of the final school year.

In 1949 the new government established a commission of inquiry into black education, under the chairmanship of Werner Eiselen. It proposed a new state-controlled system. No mention was made of any theories of racial inferiority. The report concerned itself with the worrying lack of a groepsgevoel (group feeling) among blacks. It pointed out that African cultures were dynamic and could provide the context for the modernisation of entire peoples. Instead of imitating English culture, the system had to inculcate pride in the volkseie – the history, customs, habits, character and mentality of the ethnic group of pupils. The report also evinced a strong belief in the superiority of mother-tongue education. As a result, the government made the ethnic language compulsory during the entire primary schooling, and subsequently in most of secondary school as well.

In 1953 the government took control of black education. It was keen to eliminate the church and mission schools whose teachers mostly rejected the apartheid policy and had extended English influence. This assumption of control went hand in hand with a major extension of inferior mass education to blacks. In 1948 only 24% of blacks of school-going age were enrolled in schools; by 1994 the proportion had risen to 84%, a steady increase in black pupils of an average of 5.8% per year.

Verwoerd got the National Party caucus to accept the introduction of mass education with the promise that there would be ‘no place for Africans above the level of certain forms of labour’. He added that within their ‘own community all doors are open’. These words reverberated through the years. They were blunt and callous, epitomising the mean spirit of apartheid. It came as a shock because the war years had kindled the hope that the straitjacket of segregation was slowly slipping from the body of blacks.

The fact was, however, that Verwoerd did not announce new policy. There had long been a consensus among the white parties that skilled and semi-skilled jobs were reserved for whites. As Jonathan Hyslop remarks in The Class Room Struggle, ‘“Civilised labour” had a long and broadly based history in white politics. What was new was Verwoerd’s aim of opening up new structures of black incorporation through the homelands.’ The state was never a white state. Even in the 1950s there were more blacks in the civil service than whites. The number of black civil servants in the various apartheid structures ‘serving their own people, as the policy would have it’, steadily increased over the next three to four decades.

Verwoerd provoked particular hostility by saying that it did not serve any purpose to teach a black child mathematics if he or she could not use it. Despite these words, analysts found that syllabuses in black schools were very much the same as in the white schools and an improvement on those used previously in many of the private black schools.

The small, urbanised professional class of blacks strongly rejected mother-tongue education. They saw the sole purpose of ‘Bantu education’, as it came to be called, as that of preventing the advance of blacks in the Western economy and culture. They wanted jobs in the modern economy, not to be restricted to serving white society. They saw the emphasis on distinct ‘Bantu’ cultures as an attempt at divide-and-rule not based on a genuine concern for these cultures.

‘Bantu education’ suffered from inadequate funding. For nearly two decades the government pegged its own statutory spending on black education through the general budget at the same level. The sharp increase in the number of children absorbed by the system resulted in per capita spending on black children falling by a third in this period.

The system paid very little attention to the need for secondary education until the early 1970s. The number of blacks who passed the highest standard with what was called a school-leaving certificate remained stagnant between 1954 and 1961 (ranging between 279 and 338). As late as 1966 there were only 1 615 black children in the final school year.

In 1959 the government introduced legislation to segregate universities by race. ‘White’ universities could accept no black or coloured students for any course also offered at designated black or coloured universities. One of the main objectives of the new policy was to remove black students from the influence of liberal academics and the city environment. But students at the ‘bush colleges’ did not become the leaders of their respective ethnic communities, as the apartheid system envisaged, but the most disaffected elements in the subordinate population. The system failed to produce the pliant ‘apartheid man’, without which it could not survive.

Wessel when I read your quote I get the sense that it supports what I have been saying about divide and rule using langauage.
No-one has ever said Afrikaans cannot be nurtured and developed. However the issue is whether it should be the language of instruction at a major university thus excluding the majority of South Africans who do not feel about Afrikaans as you do.

The "majority" are ALWAYS excluded from ALL universities everywhere on earth. Fetishing "the majority" is simply ridiculous.

Non-English speakers in SA have a vast range of English-medium universities to choose from in all the major towns and cities and some are even out in the boondocks. Afrikaans speakers have only one or two.

Sadly, Zulus, Xhosas, Sothos and Tswanas have exactly zero, in spite of their vast population numbers.

THAT is what needs fixing as a matter of some urgency. But the regime chooses to speak with the forked tongue of hypocrisy: on the one hand legally declaring all 11 languages equally-official, yet doing absolutely nothing beyond shallow symbolic gesturing to elevate the underdeveloped African languages to the same level as the fully-developed English and Afrikaans.

Shame on them!