ANC backlash against the left

Say it like it is Masetlha!

Some of these ANC top officials I really dont understand them. They are not happy about something,but they want to speak out on condition of being annonymous. its a shame. Billy is right, Zuma is indebted to these guys. and they are controlling him. The ANC is becoming or rather it is the new LEFT.

I am not sure what Billy is saying, confusing oppennes and cowardness. When Pres Zuma took over ANC there was a breath of fresh air and if there are any good ideas with alliance partners, why should you be so scared. Relax, ANC is multi class and currently is the time for the poor to voice their greviences. There is absolutely no substancial influence from either Cosatu and SACP, just to mention but a few, No economic policy shift, we still have inflation targeting policy on, Replacing SABC board was in line with Polokwane resolution to give parliament more power which indeed is currently happening, and many other more. Just relax Mr Msethla and focus on building branches and tackles counselor's corruption that causes too much effect on service delivery.

I think that Mr ZUMA is finding out what it is to be a LEADER as opposed to a 'Mbeki alternative' when the time comes for real decisions to be made.

Billy raises a valid point. The left could never have gotten into positions of power without the sympathy of certain comrades in NEC.The onslaught on cllrs is a case in point. Between ANCYL and SACP they are discrediting councillors in communities.In fact they are behind most of the service delivery protests inciting ppl against the very ANC they claim to be part of. Why would they do this, firstly to begin to be in a position to become councillors in areas where they would not normally find favour through a democratic process. There seems to be no holds bared on their hunger for positions of power. Also it seems that between the two, they have a programme where they will holds the seats of power in all regional and provincial structures. The positions must either be chairperson or secretary.The disbandment of PEC's have nothing to factionalism or whatsoever,it has to do with the battle underway for a new NEC in the next leadership elections of ANC. Mark my words, when Malema and Fikile are on the same NEC as full members and in positions of power ANC will be worse off than in any other era. These are not soldiers who are disciplined and who understands their roles in a better life for all. These are individuals whose hunger for power is a cause for concern.Case in point is Fikile's track record on YL, he disbanded any branch,any region,any structure just because he could.He is in a position of the organising dept, that dept which has the authority to go around disbanding whatsoever. So Billy, raises a very valid point because JZ at the expense of being so nice, is treading a very thin line between payback for pals and what is good for ANC.

Billy Masetlha seems to be the one expressing foreign tendencies within the ANC. The revolutionary alliance is historical. Many leaders of the ANC were also leaders of the Party, the most notable being the late Chris Hani! It is also pathetic and shameful of comrade Billy to be lambasting the supposed 'socialist' project when the free-market has failed spectacularly globally. Is the current economic quagmire not an indictment of the so-called free market?
What is wrong with disbanding labour brokers who exploit our people and impede our campaign of 'decent' work for all? Whats wrong with disbandining a corrupt and factionalist SABC board? Whats wrong with replacing the incompetent SAA leadership?
The reason so many people are complaining against the influence of the LEFT is that, the new ANC is acting against corrupt officials, is asking government officials to stop abusing state resources, is asking councilors to be effective and responsive to communities the serve. These are the real reasons that they dare not say in public!

Pres Jacob Gedleyehlegisa Zuma is not in charge but act or work like a ceremonial leader. Hence, the 'Polokwane lynch mob' are in charge - writing speech, organising conference, expelling fellow corrupt Cllrs and mayor and deploying cadres. How on earth can you lead the SACP, ANC and Country all at once? Absolute madness..? How on earth can be ANC Provincial Chair, seat on provincial tender board, because CEO of Empowerment Agency and became member of the deployment committe? Nonetheless, thats how is the state of affairs is within the ruling party.

Look within the Presindency you have all the talent but what can you do with talent if you can't use it? The National Plannning Commission is like a white elephant. hence, we are suppose to endorse the Economic Development portfolio whether we agree or not. Slow and surely we drifting into a totalitarian state....

Well, there IS a formal tripartite alliance. And only one member of that triumvirate goes to to voters to ask them for their vote. The other two members merely piggy-back their way into power on the back of the ANC. But all three parties swear eternal loyalty to their alliance, so the vote-seeking ANC has to be happy with this parasitic arrangement. No point griping. If you don't like this arrangement, then end it. Force those annoying parasitic socialists to fight their own way into parliament, if you have the guts.

@Pasile, You are missing the point and I suggest you look at the role Moses Kotane played in the movement. The duality was never a problem with ppl of this calibre. They understood their roles in the National Democratic Revolution. There are diffent roles iro the alliance partners. Hence the Moses Kotane,Joe Slovo,Chris Hani understood those roles. Why do you think Chris Hani decided to stand for election in ANC when he did. So think very carefully about the issue Billy is raising..

Senior ANC Leader really value Malema, he's ahead of his time. A true blessing indeed.

Masetla is one of those comrades who are slowly awaking from their drunken power stupor. His observations are not new; he is just a slow thinker. Why is it that ANC members are in a constant state of fear? First they alleged they could not speak in the Mbeki era whom they blamed for stifling debate, and now they fear a backlash from COSATU if they speak-out?

Kitty Kat: You contradicted your points, made on the 'SACP bidding for municipality jobs' article. The one were you 'refused to debate'.

First, Billy is off the mark. However, there is half truth in this story which makes Billy appear as if he’s ridiculing the Polokwane resolutions. I doubt that. He may have complained about the way issues are handled, such as the handling of the Trevor issue by COSATU but not about the abolishment Employment agencies, disbandment of the SABC Board etc. The story paints a picture of Billy Masetlha or the ANC for that matter which was willing to protect the previous SABC board and looting of the SAA monies by Ngqula’s family.

It is also a lie probable of a Reporter that, in the past and in the ANC, we have chased away people who wants to push socialist agenda. Instead, this has only been a recent phenomenon under Mbeka era where most SACP/COSATU leaders have been sidelined. SAPCP and COSATU have never dictated or imposed its leadership on the ANC.

In general, and as ANC supporters, we are not threatened by the left. Malema is correct in that they are raising significant and substantial issues though sometimes there are leaders within SACP/COSATU who lack tact and diplomacy in bringing these matters of importance to the fore. For example, the personification of Manuel’s issue was erroneous, but we are not chickening out to engage our alliance partners on this issue, and guess what, the very same SACP Secretary General Mantashe was the first one to spring out vociferously in defence of Trevor, which tells you, the alliance is alive and healthy.

I think it is very important for the reporters to be taught fundamentals on political economy. It will greatly enhance their style of reporting. This story is just not on!

Billy and his ilk within the ANC must channel their energies in building ANC branches in order to strengthen the party if they are really committed to its values. He is here exposing himself as a person who is so accustomed to being a leader (mostly imposed or deployed)than being part of the collective.I find it being ahistorical of him to argue that the socialist agenda has never been embraced by the ANC and only National Liberation was ANC platform. The question is given the fact that the ANC in now in power does this mean the ANC has no agenda as a party? If it is so it is then a sad indictment for such a glorious movement as it means people like Billy himself, who are in the NEC have no clue where they are taking ANC. My simple analysis is that ANC in its current format of being a broad church will always be a contested terrain. Alliance partners like COSATU and SACP, who are more organised than ANC structures, will always occupy a centre stage as long as the ANC continue fail to build up and re-organise its branches to viable structures. Unfortunately this demands commitment, sacrifice and hard work which seems to be void amongst many leaders. It is easier to demonise COSATU and SACP in the media, than really mobilising ordinary branch members and educate them about the values and vision of the ANC.

@sinu, the diff between you and me is that I do not operate on blind belief and am able to discuss issues on merit. That is the rich conscientiousness of understanding the difference between ideology and indoctrination. Now read that very very carefully.....

It comes with the territory. You make your own bed you must lie on it.

I disagree with Cde Billy here.There is no truth that SACP dictated that Eastern Cape must elect Cde Phumulo as Chair and I don't know where he gets this.It is members of ANC who did campaign for him to emerge,It is us who campaigned from Chris Hani region,Metro,Cacadu,O.R tambo,Amathole(even though we didn't command the majority) and we did that as ANC members not as SACP members. Cde Billy must understand that ANC is a multi-class structure and we'll always fight about the position we must take and who must lead us.

Perhaps it exists in the mind of only Cde Billy that "In ANC there's no space for socialism".Perhaps he needs to understand the logical conclusion of NDR and also understand what is it that Freedom Charter stands for when it says the people shall share in the wealth of the country and young as I am i know it's Socialism. ANC is not for richer people and you can't expect that only the richer must influence and when the leftists are doing then you cry foul.Cde billy must remember that ANC is saying it is bias towards the working class and its strategic mission as captured in Morogoro and again revisited in Polokwane Cnference is the Liberation of africans in general and blacks in particular from all forms of bondages, and what is it that ANC is talking about if it talks about improving the lives of poor people and where does he come from to tell us it's wrong for the left to influence ANC. Much as I would disagree with COSATU on Unionisation of Soldiers because of the risks involved in that but Why is Cde Billy prophesizing that COSATU will win because JZ is on their side.

I expected better from the Cadre of NEC calibre not what is said by Cde billy and if he is not happy let him raise that in the meetings of NEC not in mail and guardian.

Amandlaness!!!

Nhlanhla,I beg to differ. ANC branches do not rely on leaders from the top to build them (?) Good lord, Anc branches are the basic units of the movement.How do you think these NEC leaders are elected. Secondly, SACP is one of the weakest amongst all alliance partners. That even in comparison to SANCO. In fact they represent the weakest and smallest numbers of 'organised structures' If you knew the reality, they have failed to quorate many of their branches to try and get a quorum at their congress.
Thirdly, ANC throughout provinces have the strongest and most vibrant structures and if there is no such structures the organising dept should have task teams at any structure to take branches to elective conference to have a constitutional structure. Same process with branches.Hence if you do not understand what Billy is saying then please do not cloud the issue with false information. Also, no one holds the monopoly to raise issues from ANC.I mean SACP/COSATU can willy nilly complain abt ANC, but ANC cannot. What nonsense is that? The question that is glaringly missing is: WHAT PHASE OF THE NDR ARE WE INTO RIGHT NOW?

When i read Billy i laugh at the end of the day, the reason is that this issue was raised by Terror Lekota before but Billy himself didnt bother to listen to Terror but now after Billy has lost to a position of returning to NIA did work that's when he started raising his voice. He is thinking that now i have been singing umshini wami how am i going to be rewarded. What he is saying is true but the timing is of concern .

Gosh! Who'd have thought it possible? Fear and loathing continue even after that former president (who shall remain nameless) and a good chunk of his vanguard are ousted! Oh wow! Sarcasm aside, wrap this up in ideology, if so desired, but this infighting / cloak & dagger stuff is almost as annoying as the self-serving politicians who now think that it is okay to go and bitch and complain about their own party's failings to journalists. A month back, these and other politicians were telling the media to back off, stop being biased, allow the party clean up its own mess, not to undertake trials by media. I had to sit through all of that crap, too. Frankly, they have the moral fibre of a vacuum and the long-term memory of goldfish. (Sorry, Goldfish!)

The biggest ununswered question is what does the ANC stand for? What are the fundamental principles that distinguishes the ANC from any other political formation. Failure to understand this will always lead to a feeling of uneasiness among ANC cadres. To see the super rich Motsepe and Sexwale consrting with the Reds like Blade and Jeremy is disconcerting - I hope the R1.1m BMW Blade is nenjoying is not influenced sharing suites with the super rich.
I have been raising the question of dual membership between ANC and SACP. This is one of the core source of insecurity among alliance leaders. I find it difficult to understand the role of people like Blade Nzimande, Jeremy Cronin, Gwede Mantashe etc. in the NEC. Blade Nzimande addresses issues mostly as a communist - a position that he has to take. I am still to hear standing by the ANC NEC positions e.g. the current economic policies.
If however, the likes of Blade and co. were only members of the SACP and invited like Dr Mulder to serve in an ANC government to obfuscation will be avoided.
That the SACP and Cosatu help shape the ANC is not in question and may be desireable in as much as other political formations help ANC clarify its positions. But to have thse organs agitate for a takeover of ANC branches and Regions is another matter. I often wonder why if these formations have so better ideas with respect to the direction national policy should take, why are they not canvassing their positions as independent entities? Why ist it that their position must find expression in ANC policies? Unless I have missed the conversion of ANC into a Socialist movement since POLOKWANE! Better still what are the core distinguishing features of the ANC as a Party/Movement?

Kitty Kat- u spew absolute nonsense. One of the central problems raised by the then SG of the ANC, Kgalema in Polokwane was precisely the weakness of the ANC structures. A weakness engineered by those who wished and succeeded in circumventing the branches in the decision making process. Which branch participated in the discussion about out economic trajectory? None is the answer you are looking for! Its a romantic myth that the branches are the soul of the ANC. They are not, nor have they ever been. I'm an MK veteran, and in the 70's and 80's we could not afford to have an overt and visible branch because we feared being inflitrated by spies of the apartheid state!
The workers and communists saved the ANC in the 50's when it was threatened by political oblivion, they done so again in the 70's when it had reached an ideological cul-de sec. Vavi and Nzimande are both ANC members and leaders and we shall continue to treat them as such.
As for your vibrant branches go to Cape Town, Eastern Cape and North West to see the sorry state of our organization. And when people like Vavi try to root out the poisonous elements of our movement, the Billy Masetlhas of this world expose their bankruptcy and narrow interests. Only the 'tender comrades' have a problem with the influence of the LEFT in the ANC. And why does Billy and the gang not have the courage to say that they wish to see a neo-liberal capitalist ANC?
Is it a wonder that Jon Low and other DA supporters are agreeing with Billy the fool! We will expose his ilk and remove them from the leadership of our movement! And for the record: I am not a member of the SACP or Cosatu for that matter. But we fought side by side with the communists against a common enemy, colonialism. We will not abonden them because we want to be accepted by our former oppressors who still hate us, or for narrow personal gain.
Long Live the Revolutionary Alliance!

A: Billy who?
B: Bill the spy.

@pasile, as a MK veteran of the movement, you of all people should understand agent provocateur as much as you understand misinformation yes chief you of all people. Also, who goes to policy conferences and then to elective conferences? It is branches who mandate members to attend these. So if you are saying that branches have no say at these conferences are you suggesting that 'voting cows' are responsible for the NEC we now have. The Polokwane conference was a watershed moment and branches spoke decisively on policies and who they wanted as leaders. Now as much as you have disbanded structures in these provinces, please remember that the disbandment was taken at the behest of branches. It was decided by Fikile that these structures be disbanded. Also, I think you are reading what Billy is saying wrongly. WHEN ALLIANCE PARTNERS SERVE IN ANC GOVT they SERVE IN THE INTERESTS OF ANC and ITS POLICIES. It is done according to the agenda of the NDR. ALL policies of ANC has rejected the narrow neo-liberal interests. Furthermore, I suggest that you are not influenced by media and its reports. As MK veteran you should know how dangerous this is. Rather respect your organisation and find out the truth. Conclusion, any SACP or COSATU member in a govt position must deliver on the policies of ANC ONLY! They are there on the ticket of ANC and not SACP or COSATU.

If you lie down with dogs, you will catch fleas...

Kitty Kat- fair enough. But please do tell me one thing that SACP or COSATU have been advocating that is contrary to Polokwane resolutions? I don't nor have I ever trusted the neocolonial media in this country. However, I have spoken to Billy several times and I know that what the divisive M&G is reporting is absolutely true. Billy has learned from the Shikota crowd that in order to cause confusion and disunity in the movement, the media is the correct ally to have. ... I love this movement and have given my best years to it, we can disagree rigorously but still remain comradely. And on that note- have a good and safe weekend comrades.

@pasile, there is a very good reason why polokwane decided that billy was part of the elected nec. you know what I am saying here. He was not an add-on or a negotiated settlement!
So please do not be confused about him..

It must be emphasised that without an ideology there can’t be bona fide politic however bountiful ideologies within the tripartite alliance might have aided the NDR but might not be good for this democratic era for this reason it would have been desirable had the electorate had an opportunity to vote for whichever they believe would best represent them.
@kitty kat, I would prefer ur view on the above!

I agree with Masethla about the tendency of the SACP/COSATU to want to take over in the ANC. But I think the problem is with the ANC leadership not the alliance partners. They are as silent now as they were under Mbeki. The alliance partners raise and try to find answers to important issues that relate to the poor and workers-socialist agenda or not these are the issues the ANC leadership is failing to address. They are afraid to raise and debate issues because they are more concerned with their positions. It is time they start flexing their muscles, they have the support of those of us who know exactly that we voted for the ANC not for COSATU/SACP. Interestingly only Julius Malema does from time to time take on the COSATU/SACP leaders. I support the courage of the Masethla but I don't support the tone of his comments as they sound more like accusations than genuine debates. I challenge the ANC leaders to take on COSATU/SAPC and debate issues that they raise.

One thing for sure a truly broad church, would accept the views of the likes of Billy (and proponents) without attacking them. A truly broad church would recognise that comrades within the church may often disagree on many things including policies. Why then, if we accept the analogy of a broad church, do we not accept easily the views of others without calling them names? If we accept the broach church analogy and the resultant probability of existence of discerning view, why do those who hold different views always hide their faces behind ANONIMITY? Is it because that the concept of a broad church only exist insofar as one agrees with the majority view in the church?

I must say it was disappointing to appoint Trevor, asking him to drive a certain agenda (NPC) and then not defend him when being attached by Cosatu. This gives credence to the view that many like Billy hold. In fact many of the comments that have been made by those who have been leading the campaign for JZ to become the president of the ANC, have received very little criticism. It was heart-warming to hear the ANC SG showing leadership in this regard, where Zuma failed.

The broad church must brace itself for even more discerning views in the future. Those who have been lucky enough to see the future talk of Polokwane as walk in the park when compared to the future battles for the soul of the ANC.

Kitty Kat: LOL, thats what I was gonna say to you! I operate on observation. Not blind belief and propaganda.

The ANC is to change its name to the ANCP (African National Communist Party.

When a certain succeful man was asked "what is the key to success?" he answered, "I do not know. But I know that the key to failure is to want to be loved by everybody." These ANC cowards are now attacking Billy, instead of debating the issue. Anyway such is the characteristic of a hollow and empty mind. SACP/COSATU cannot be faultered for seeing the gap, if not weakness, in the ANC and exploit it. The SACP/COSATU at least is openly pushing the socialist agenda (as flawed and useless as it is in the morden world), what agenda is ANC pushing? It's a fact that SACP/COSATU is patronising the ANC under the pretext of alliance open debate and breathing of fresh air since Polokwane. There must be a reason why SACP is SACP, ANC is ANC, and a line of demarcation must be vissible, otherwise fuse them into one organisation. There's a difference between a genuine and honest alliance underpinned by common purpose, and allinace of convinience driven by greed, manipulation and deciet. It's so sad that ANC/SACP/COSATU alliance is defined by the latter. Fortunately the latter kind of alliance is never sustainable, no matter how hard certain individuals inside that alliance can pretend as if all is well.

So the same ANC "leaders" (read self-serving careerists) who were afraid to speak out against Mbeki are now afraid to speak out against Cosatu, SACP and Zuma. "Shoot the settler" has become "shoot the messenger".

With such cowering "leadership" no wonder government refuses to face up to SA's problems (crime, development, racial tension, digital-and-education divide,....) and is focussed on looting while they can.

NDR? Does anyone still believe that nonsense? I'd better not mention the tooth fairy and father christmas too loudly then. There may be naive and gullible ANC-"alliance" people within earshot.

Annandale: Hehehe, the ANCP. I always preferred the ANP.

Why this problem is impossible to solve at present:

http://richmarksentinel.com/rs_articles.asp?catid=2&recid=554&pcurr=2

Cosatu and the SACP did not receive a mandate from the voters to rule our country. They should register as a party and test their support in the next election! Until then, we the citizens should fight off these arrogant free riders.

Kitty Kat, if the ANC is as strong as you claim and believe, then why keep this alliance? Is it because ANC needs this alliance to look good to the Chinese?

"[Julius] Malema to be the repository of intellectual debates"
Priceless

ANC leaders were afraid to speak out against Cosatu and SACP leaders, the source said, because they were too close to Zuma.

"For example, on the issue of expensive cars for ministers, comrades wanted to respond to Cosatu but had to retreat because they are not sure of the backlash.

"The problem … is that JZ [Zuma] was carried so much by the alliance partners to … where he is.


I was reading an article by Tito that mines will not be nationalised in response to the clamour from the Youth League which recently proclaimed that banks and mines should be nationalised. As I read the article I realised that in lieu of the statements made by Billy on Friday, the ANC has been very quick to release a statement vehemently opposing Billy's view. I notice the quick response with which the ANC reminded us that Billy's utterances are not those of the ANC. And I wondered, has there been such a quick response to utterances made by Malema, about nationalisation of banks? We all know that nationalisation of mines and banks is not the policy of the ANC. Why then has the ANC not issued a statement distancing itself from Malema's utterences as it has done with Billy? Is it because, like the statement made in the article and I quote, "ANC leaders are afraid to speak out against Cosatu, YL and SACP leaders, the source said, because they were too close to Zuma?".Or is it because and I quote from the same article above "The problem … is that JZ [Zuma] was carried so much by the alliance partners to … where he is“. Could it be that any view JZ may express opposing the ANC,YL & Cosatu, may anger them to a point where they may revolt against and take away the support they have given him so far? Whatever the answer maybe, South Africa deserves strong leadership. People who will put the interest of the country first before their selfish ulterior motives. Can the REAL president of the ANC please stand up?

Billy,say it loud when some of our comrades are afraid to speak.SACP is pushing hard to rule and control our president.they should not dictate terms to the movement.Mr President where do u stand?

These are the signs of people like Billy Masetlha suffocating under a system they created themselves. Billy was one of those who were very keen & forward in getting rid of Mbeki. Their deep hatred for the former president blinded them in so much that they sold the soul of the ANC but are only realising now. Zuma was in a corner and had to take any form of support but it was very clear from the outset that under him the centre was never gonna be able to hold. Lindiwe Sisulu, Jeff Radebe & Billy jumped at the opportunity and raised their hands, volunteering to go inform Mbeki about his dismissal. Sisulu never saw it coming and I'm not sure even if she sees it now that Cosatu has no respect for him. Jeff has the dual membership so he can be quite comfortable with the status quo. Billy's future is not very clear as there already calls from the Cosatu president S'dumo Dlamini to have him censored. Yes indeed, if you made your bed then lie on it!!!!

i sense an uneaseness in Billy, think the level of engagement on issues of National has indeed changed, that is what it does, it unsettles coach potatoes