/ 13 October 2009

Agliotti: ‘I do lie from time to time’

Former top cop Jackie Selebi’s defence fought a no-holds barred battle on Tuesday afternoon, accusing drug-lord Glenn Agliotti of not hesitating to lie or exploit Selebi when it suited him.

‘You lied when you regarded it in your benefit to lie,” defence counsel Jaap Cilliers told Agliotti. ‘Actually, you lie whether you benefit or not. You tell lies.”

Agliotti replied: ‘We all do. I do lie from time to time.”

Cilliers used an affidavit signed by Agliotti in January 2008 to illustrate why he can’t be trusted. The affidavit, Agliotti earlier testified, was typed on the computer of his friend and businesswoman Tanya Volschenk after he enjoyed a family lunch and ‘some good wine”.

The affidavit was later given to former intelligence boss Manala Manzini and featured in Selebi’s failed attempt to have the charges against him withdrawn.

Agliotti testified during evidence in chief that he was desperate to cut a deal with the state and felt he could do it through cooperating with the National Intelligence Agency (NIA).

In the affidavit Agliotti had sworn to false statements only to admit in court that they were not completely true. Agliotti admitted that he had made the statement to secure a deal with the NIA regarding his implication in a drug-trafficking case, and that he ‘said things I thought the NIA wanted to hear”.

He told the court that ‘there are facts that are not correct. Like [chief prosecutor Gerrie] Nel would say this, or [Scorpions investigator Andrew] Leask would say that.” But when asked if there were any aspects where he deliberately misled the NIA, Agliotti said, ‘No.”

Many of the falsehoods in the affidavit were put down to ‘verbiage”, according to Agliotti, and small misrepresentations. ‘For example,” said Cilliers, ‘you said Nel targeted you through the Mail & Guardian and then you said it’s not true.” Agliotti replied: ‘He did target me, but I added in ‘through the Mail & Guardian‘.”

The gist of the affidavit was ‘to do my best to discredit the DSO [the Scorpions]”, said Agliotti.

‘We can infer that if you are busy negotiating deals with an authority, you will do anything to get that deal,” asked Cilliers.

‘Yes,” said Agliotti.

Cilliers: ‘And the element of truth plays no part?”

Agliotti: ‘No, not at all”.

After a significant amount of pushing by Cilliers, Agliotti finally relented, with the vocabulary of the cross-examination moving swiftly from ‘not completely true” to ‘lies”.

Cilliers finally put to him: ‘You lied to secure a deal that would prevent prosecution,” to which Agliotti agreed.

‘Sometimes you lie, sometimes you speak the truth,” said Cilliers. ‘Whatever the occasion demands.”

Cilliers also told the court how Agliotti initially refused to testify against Selebi, until he struck a plea bargain with the Scorpions on the drug-trafficking charge.

‘You knew through the press campaign that the DSO wanted at all costs to get to the commissioner,” said Cilliers. ‘You held the key to a successful prosecution by the NPA [National Prosecuting Authority] and the DSO against the accused.”

Agliotti concurred.

Cilliers added: ‘You used that information to secure yourself an immensely favourable plea bargain — and we know your approach to truth when it involves your own benefit. Truth plays no role.”