Mthethwa racks up another massive hotel bill

are these people crazy? Since when is 3/4 of a million rand normal to spend from public coffers, on hotel bills? Surely the guy could live in a hotel for less than that a year? Business as usual for the cadres of the revolution.......another bottle of moet waiter!

This is African democracy at work. It is so ironic that the ruling party (made up of trade unionists, communists and supposedly those with a socialist agenda) could have so many elitist exploiters of an essentially bankrupt society. He is either VERY stupid, considering that the last 'mistake' is being repeated, or if history is anything to go by, he is either destined to become a (dictatorial?) president of this country, or move into business, selling God under an evangelical banner of some sort. There is a basic level of dishonesty that permeates through the attitudes to governance in this country and soceity - and this is a problem!

And where are the comments from Sandile or Malema ?

"Tjoep-stil"

This is a disgusting abuse of power - and our taxes !

Will he be fired ? Yeah, right....

Aha...lol!

Another round.....ROUND 3!
That's why there is Maths Literacy @school these days.These guyz have 2 go back 2 skul & learn more about x-penditure!Damn stupids...,all of them.

Yes!

This is absolutely not acceptable. He should be made to repay at least half of this. What is wrong with these people. Have they no self respect and above all dignity. This is pure theft as I have not heard from our beloved JZ condoning this type of behaviour. Bloody hippocrate. Stamping our corruption and graft! Yeah, right! What is JZ smoking?

That's all they know....I am yet to see a single one who is competent in their work....it seems that's what they've been put there for ANC cadre deployment my a$$.

Mthethwa's expenses far exceed his ability to stem the crime wave therefore he is not worth much.

Great, let them steal, they're stealing from their own. The taxes should be used for the poor of the country, and 90% of the poor are their "brothers", their "comrades", fellow Azanians. They wanted an Banana republic like all the other failed states North of the Border....they'll get it...this is how it starts. Vote ANC!! Amantla!!! Its poetry!! Dis te' lekker!!

ha ha ha, comedy continues, ANC thievery corporation, ANC rape your own children, and the children ask for more, viva ANC, SA burning faster everyday and this bitter soul is loving it. go on SA, let the ANC flush you down the toilet. burn baby burn.

Cmde Mthethwa, please refund this money. It cannot be a good, correct and or sound moral story, why use the ticket and poor vote for a larvishes life? This is totally unacceptable from business and political's perspective. I wonder when are our fellow brothers going to realise that there are limits to perate within, even if it's work related.

This is indeed unacceptable. What a prima-donna Mthethwa is turning out to be! I think the presidency planning dept, in-line with keeping unproductive civil servants in check, should also have an ad-hoc committee dedicated to approving or disapproving any request (mind you the operational word here is request, which is prior to any spending not after) made by these high-rollers because they are apparently not to be trusted to keep their hand out of the cookie jar!
Thandanani Umlaw

Get used to it. The 'people' voted for the gravy train.

This is not going to stop. The ministers involved will used the same arguments ... "We have nothing wrong" or "This is part of our tools of the trade to carry out our mandate".

These politicians are certainly not going to waste the tax payers money on service delivery. The will rather spend it on their own luxurious indulgences.

The 'people' will just be left with with the crumbs ... if there are any left. They deserve the government they have got.

I encourage the Ministers to keep on disrespecting the voters as it is reported here. None of us were born by any political party; we were born by our mothers. If the ANC continues to preach one thing and does completely the opposite, it will be responsible for its own downfall. It is sickening to read that Nathi Mthwethwa who was championing Zuma's course against Mbeki can now behave in this fashion. Was he fighting for Zuma or was he fighting for his wellbeing? I pity Zuma he means well but some people in his government are taking the country backwards. COSATU has become more relevant than the ANC, pity they're just a trade union movement who will once again be sidelined by those who put their narrow interests ahead those of the citizens.

Absolutely pathetic, when we have millions South Africn living in dire poverty- since when have Ministers stopped being public servants and start being superstars using Public Funds. These rot must stop Mr President. Our country can't become another Animal Satire( Animal Farm) we all fought for these country and sacrifies for it. All the Million rand Beemers are extravagent to the core and fullish considering our high unemployment. We can't continue with the Native Intelligence way of life of laving expenses first class jet set combined cigar and whisky and totally forget the masses who are destitute and poor. Service delivery Now stop Mad spending

These actions epitomise the ANC policy of self-enrichment. Even when you have been found out, proven guilty, publicly 'humiliated' they turn around and repeat the very same thing. When will our blind and sleeping electorate wake up and smell the coffee. ANC needs to go!

We've heard it before, but I'll repeat it : Every nation has the government it deserves.

However, in South Africa there is a twist. By far the greater proportion of voters who returned the ANC to power in April, do not pay tax(with the exclusion of VAT of course). The greater proportion of those who did NOT vote for the ANC in April DO pay taxes.

It is this small percentage of the electorate that are funding the profligate spending we are hearing so much about. As this (taxpaying) sector of the electorate are of no political significance to the ruling class, the spending will continue. Greed has become the order of the day.

More frightening is the fact that it is still race, and not issues, that dominate our politics. Nothing is going to change for several decades. Education is the key, and we know how little attention has been paid to this vital aspect of delivery. Makes one think, doesn't it ?

Where is the logic? Mthethwa still has a job when the country is in recession and he racks up hotels bills for 750K, while in 2007 Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge was fired for attending an AIDS conference for 160K. I guess Nozizwe was too committed to the job to fit in the ANC

why? malema only comment on other issues. this is the serious issue but they just keep quit on this why? is wasting cash the main purpose to ANC it seems like the graph is increasing slightly. the are many things they can do with such amount of money but misusing is a habit to South Afican leaders

In essence Mthethwa is a criminal himself, he has robbed us of our tax money. Here's a novel idea, vote for the ANC, don't think about your vote comrades, vote for them again and again and again, X Anc - Amandla! But then again I'm a pale, much hated, evil, oppressive imperialist and english(pure evil)umlungu, so I must vala umlomo and pay for my sins. Eish...

KeDarkie Boss, mara amasiba wodwa lawa!How do you justice such behaviour?I'm the first in line to stand and be counted to defend & substantiate certain behavoural patterns of our members but this is a clear abuse of power & it's disgusting.Where I come from we call it the BMIPS - Black Man In Power Syndrome. Absolute bullshit.Systems need to be created to avoid such crap from taking place wheither govt can buy properties in an around the province so unaccomodated officials may stay during their vists of whatever but there needs to be more planning in this department.Come on man, get it together. It's not the organisation but the individuals.Deal with them Mr President'e!

Let the money-loving cadres continue, let them tell the people on the ground to EAT CAKE.

Well see during the next election how far the ANC gets with free 'food parcels' and 'yellow tshirts'.

KiDarkie Boss, mara amasimba wodwa lawa!How do you justify such behaviour?I'm the first one in line to stand and be counted to defend & substantiate certain behavoural patterns of our members but this is a clear abuse of power & it's disgusting.Where I come from we call it the BMIPS - Black Man In Power Syndrome. Absolute bullshit.Systems need to be created to avoid such crap from taking place wheither govt can buy properties in an around the provinces so that unaccommodated officials may stay during their official planned work vists of whatever but there needs to be more planning in this department.Come on man, get it together. It's not the organisation but the individuals.Deal with them Mr President'e!

The people will not forget this ammunition that Mthethwa racks up for the coming 2011 elections. The opposition can use this because if I were to hear that anyone of Helen Zille camp did spend even a quarter of that, I would be voting something ells, especially if I don’t have money to buy food for my children. The wastefulness is really disgusting! This is a slap in President Zumas Administration’s face. Are they going to turn the other cheek?

So let’s see what crappy excuse he will say now!

Go for it, while there are still funds in the Goverment coffers. While Rome is burning with no service deliveries, I hope the hotel service is good enough for you! Let them eat cake, and if they are not happy, shoot to kill, that will solve it.

You got it sorted. Only one question ... will you be the sort of ansestor one day your family will be proud of? Just wondering?

Hey, so what do liberals do?They take liberties!I wonder how much his smooth sunglaases cost?Eish ama-rock star syle!

Absolutely disgusting. How can the people continue to allow such self-centered politicians to lead them. True to ANC form, nothing will be done and it'll be business as usual tomorrow...

@Louis ("The people will not forget this ammunition th......")

Wot's the use, if pple remember the evil, but then do nothing about that?
They R always brain-washed by those swit-voices & words....the decieving songs.......SIYAYA NOMAKUBI (we R goin there,although/whether it's bad)........UMSHINIWAM.....AND ALL THOSE cristian songz,..whereby GOD's name is substituted by the ANC president (Gedleyihlekisa aka J.Z.)!

The public has no1to blame, but themselves!!

Yes!

These government officials will continue gleaning public rands because they are backed-up by the convictions of ignorant 'men', to keep them in power irrespective of effectiveness, or lack thereof. This might sound 'insane' (I won't argue for the intellectual difference between sanity and its extreme opposite), but the ruling party manufactures ignorance. It all begins with the 'singing'!

The problem with individualising politics is that you look for the closest solutions. We can't have cabinet ministers sleeping in side sharks simply because they have a point to prove and because they are not exalted to personal opulence, that is just unANC. In ANC we give our deployees a mandate to execute as accord than emphasising the politics of a cadre not within his capacity to do what he was deployed for.

Oliver Mabogwana:
You are a stupid, lazy thinking, useless moron. I will not be suprised if you one of the useless government officials who are occupying positions thanks to their loyalty to the gravy train thats the ANC..ministers earn close to R2M and the money they are wasting is our tax payer money idiot!!!

Something funny,something immoral,a grave crime has been committed by someone entrusted with the position of trust and powers has entirely violeted the conditions of his ministeral code,position.I expect the Law after our country to get itself involved.I believe the ANC will suspend him,as the our governing policies.He and others do not deserve public office as they do not understand what they are seconded for.Arrest criminals within your kitcken or loose power.Nobody will accept shit.

I am ANC member who is independent,but abide by policies like anybody else.ANC,if I may be right;was not formed to this rubbish.Today,some comrades are untouchable,mastering legalized polititiacally-schewed white collar crime.Bube yimi ngabe sengicoshiwe,ngaboshwa;kwakulunya nasemsakazweni.Elinye lamabhumesi asazenzela wona. ANGIHLAMBALAZI,NGIVALA LAMAHLAZO

Poverty is rife in SA, yet Ministers squander taxpayers' money on luxury for themselves. It's criminal and should be a punishable offence. How many hungry mouths could you feed and how many poor children could you educate in SA with ZAR 570,000? Think about that Mr Minister next time you're sipping champagne in your 5-star hotel room, gazing out across Table Bay where Nelson Mandela languished in a cell on Robben Island for the cause of a just SA.

i need to pray god help me with my compulsive need to correct stereotypes and attempt to get people to tell the truth and hopefully find out what they want to comment about before spilling their racist and myopic guts on these forums.

the ministers expensive bill is out of order. this needs to be investigated. if as a minister there is a certain level of accomodation to be adhered to and the budget is there to do so i still say that under the current financial circumstances we need to look at this and come to an understanding.

however, i would love to know how this was handled pre '94. we had financial crises even then! i would like to know who, among the people who write in here practised any sort of active citizenship and asked questions about ministerial expenditure. yes, the normal excuse apartheid? no, sorry to dissapoint you! we have to be honest and open about this. who said only white people pay taxes? is this the reason you are keeping black people out of work under the disguise of experience so you can yell 'our taxes'. this must be one of the instances of extreme pleasure of seeing you leave with your taxes', racists! people who dont participate in our national holidays and call europe home etc!

cant you critizise with respect and out of your white skins? the problem is how diatribe dished like this even dilutes the case against disorderly ministers. fights and cases which can be won by the populace are lost because the wrong people are fighting them. have you noticed how shallow '... when the majority is going with basic foods...' sound when it is said with scant regard for this majority. things are said like '...this is africa', 'just like north of the border' and '..our taxes'.

of course corruption is a problem. we fought the racist corrupt government before. and we will fight another one if we need to. we are not afraid. but we will fight racism even harder...

do not forget that...

edwin 'this is my real name' matlapeng

This is absolutely pathetic! What I don’t understand is how does the Minister even get the strength go public claiming that he was unaware of the cost? The same person who cannot take responsibility for his expenditure is expected to take responsibility for the interests of the country when executing his duties as a minister. Then again much as I want to blame the people who are going haywire over my tax money the truth is if one was to actually analyse and investigate what policies have they contravened there aren’t any. Logic dictates that one should take responsibility for their actions but in general most people seem to forget this which is why policies, regulations and standards are there; to be the conscience to people when they lack it. In this case is there such a policy that deters officials from the spending? If this is similar to the car issue then I know there isn’t because while the expenditure was exorbitant there was no policy/ law broken by the indulgence. So while the president of the country may verbally call for ‘austerity and prudence’ regarding expenditure words are nothing without actions and policies that will hold people accountable to their actions. So we can go on believing that the ruling party is against such actions because of what they say or we can deduce that by its failure to implement concrete controls and deterrents against such they are condoning it, I choose the latter!

To Kuas M,
Calling democratically elected government officials names doesn't makes you better or i'm not sure which government system you blv in. For now shut up & watch democracy in action.
Neverthless i don't condone Mthethwa's wasteful expenditure, 3/4million is unjustifiable.
PLEASE President Zuma practise what you preach and fire Mthethwa.

The land of milk and honey but just for a few ministers.

Kuas M

I think 'these people' (there aren't as many in the ANC as u might be led to think) are incapable of thinking, which is probably the reason why the minister didn't 'know' the hotel was costing that much!

Pathetic. The Minister must resign. Oh, I forgot he is entitled to it.

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run to buy a house or two in each major city for visits of this kind?

When I was an academic, I was never in any doubt as to what travel etc. cost because I had a budget and could only spend money I had allocated, and academics do not (even in a developed country) get funded for travel on this scale.

Something seriously wrong here ...

"But this hotel is NICE!..."

Did anyone expect anything else?

Perhaps, we need to take the debate a step further. According to my understanding, whilst there might be ethical issues to highlight, but there is nothing wrong or ‘corrupt’ with what Mthethwa has done. Just as there is nothing improper with the expensive vehicles that some ministers, deputies and other officials have recently bought. Government policies provide for such. We should therefore question the sustainability of such inconsiderate and wasteful provisions, particularly within the context of the global recession whose impact is also being felt in South Africa: the world’s new ‘Belindia’ after taking over from Brazil (A grossly unequal society where a few rich live like the rich in Belgium whilst the majority live like the poor of India). Thus far, I have not heard anything from those responsible for looking after our tax money as to what measures will be taken to curb such wasteful expenditures in the future and prevent cabinet and other government officials from wasting our monies in hotels and in expensive cars, amongst others.

If they (ANC) are really serious about BEE, he would have slept in those nice township B&B.

This is unacceptable behaviour from a man in such a senior position. If he claims ignorance again, he chooses to depict himself as an incompetent an uninformed person and he should be asked to resign as such. If he does not claim ignorance, then he has knowingly behaved in an irresponsible and corrupt way and should be expected to to leave on those ground. Either way he should go......but I guess we all know that this is very unlikely to take place. This must be very stressful for him, perhaps he should pop out and buy a new car or two to cheer himself up..nothing like a little retail therapy when things aren't going well......

No need to argue this one- we are all on the same page! There is a very simple way of curbing government theft - the people vote them out and in the meantime the taxpayers whoever they are -don't pay and the excuse this year , instead of 'reccession - low interest rates etc.' you write 'can't afford the corruption - the poor are starving - hell I'm starving' - contact me when you can assure me that my tax rands will be spent responsibly - ie building the country - not raping it! The minsters et al can't pinch what is not there. Business can join in too - they have the most clout? Their BEE partners wont be that pleased anyway seeing as their earnings have dropped this year! As regards the corruption in failing municipalities - stop paying the rates - no saleries for the worthless - no work - no pay

What is most disheartening about the ongoing abuse by government ministers is the President's silence and lack of action. I am terribly disappointed in a man who I thought had the integrity needed to occupy the country's highest office, and the courage to tackle head-on all those who lacked the moral fibre to serve the people.

All those who thought I was naive and overly optimistic about President Zuma's ability to turn the country around were right, and I was wrong, regretably.

The problem here ultimately is this... I make a decent salary and I want to feel a sense of pride that I paid my taxes so that our country can be a better place. The only problem is that it would take me about 23 years and 9 months to cover R570k. So effectively all the income tax of my working career has been wasted for this selfish pig's pleasure. And that is only one bill. I don't blame anybody for being absolutely livid about this outrage. It is a complete slap in the face.

Common sense dictates that Mthethwa must resign not only from the public office but from the ANC as well since this contradicts with what Zuma stands for. People around the country are demonstrating against poor service delivery yet a guy who thinks is smart squanders all this money on useless things. He deserves nothing but an appology to the Public and ANC followed by an immediate resignation and then latter a prosecution in the court of law.

Life Observer, you are obviously an impresionable fool.
You did not sing the same tune in your naivity about Zuma before he was elected president and now, barely 6 months and a change of heart later, you want to cry betrayal most foul ?
Climb off your colonialist high horse and do some ground work for a change.

Moxster: I think the ministers need to climb off their high horse, and do some ground work for a change.

Since the sentiment is clearly and unanimously against ,let me join in the fun. While strongly condemning the excessive expenditure i cannot stand for the tacit undermining of the electorate.
The Anc won the elections and they have not forced anyone to vote for them. If the liberals are so much better why couldn't they convince the electorate?? Maybe brcause everyone knows that they do have what it takes to run the country. Their capacity in overstretched as is as they battle to manage little western cape(the easiest province to run!)

Ask the people of Wynberg they will tell how excellently the province is run, but go on to khayelitsha to hear how 5000 households are made to share all of 4 toilets.

Ask a RDP house beneficiary how they got back their dignity ,'with love:the Anc government'. Ask any liberal they will tell you about the crime,corruption and how incompetent the government is..

All of these people are correct thesaid thing is none of them bother to consider the truth of others unlike them!!
Emphasis to be noted on my absolute disapproval of the wasted funds.

Tomorrow ... simply a reflection of yesterday!

10 years ago, forums like this were full of exactly the same stuff ... those criticising the ANC's behaviour and those defending it.

Forget this particular incident and ask yourself these questions;

Were the issues 10 years ago different?
Was the nature of the criticism different?
Was the defence of the ANC's behaviour any different?
Did the voters vote any differently in the last election?

Is there less corruption today?
Has service delivery improved in the last 10 years?
Has the efficiency of govt. departments improved?
Has the ANC heeded the outcry from the public and now deals more forcefully with corruption and incompetence?

Is this behaviour any different to that of other African states, post independence?
Have those states succeeded in improving living standards for their citizens?
Do people in those states believe in a better future?

If you can answer 'yes' to a single question, you are in dire need of a dose of reality.

If you agree the answers are all 'no', how do you feel about your or your children's future?

Nothing racist; nothing emotional; nothing bitter; just hard, cold fact!

Life Observer, how could u not see this coming?

DA Mob missing the point the Debate is not electorate and ANC and its President, but about the irresponsibility of some Ministers in the ANC riding the wave of the new found Power at the expense of the Poor period. Mthethwa must repay the money and apologise and apology will be accepted. The york of NP turned DA is still very much strong to ignore.

@Edwin MatlapengOctober 19, 2009, 10:46 am
At least in the previous dispensation (white) government officials involved in fraud and corruption were sent to jail.
Example:

• Hennie van der Walt, Schweizer-Reneke MP, sentenced in January 1988 to 10 years in prison (five years suspended) for 15 counts of theft of R800 000 in trust money while deputy minister of co-operation and development.

• Leon de Beer, former National Party MP for Hillbrow, jailed in 1989 for two years on 70 counts of electoral fraud. He served eight months.

• Peet de Pontes, resigned as the MP for East London city in 1989, fined R35 000 in 1991 for fraud, theft, bribery, forgery and uttering. He cheated a residence permit for controversial and alleged mafia financier Vito Palazzolo, bribed a public servant and stole a government file.

• Pietie du Plessis, a former cabinet minister, received a nine-year jail sentence in 1993 for 17 counts of fraud involving R30 million. He served two years and eight months, qualifying for early release because he was over 60 and ill. The fraud charges against Du Plessis, in which the state alleged more than R30-million was involved, concerned the false valuations of industrial properties. They also related to the failure to reveal liabilities during the restructuring of a public company. He was released on parole after three years and died of a heart attack six months later.

Your sweeping unfounded statements, ignorance and lack of knowledge of the past is regrettable.


How did you fight the racists corruption in the past ??

Ray Ives, 10 years ago 'people' predicted that the ANC would not be around in 10 years time. And now, 10 years later, the ANC is still around and stronger than ever.
This does not mean that I condone wasteful expenditure by any government officials (ANC and DA included). Just hard, cold fact.
You say that you mean nothing 'racist; nothing emotional; nothing bitter' by your comment, yet you pre-empt it by "...If you can answer 'yes' to a single question, you are in dire need of a dose of reality..." So what is it, dude ? You are an oxymoron ...

The Moxster - It seems you approve of wholesale abuse and theft. Are you a professional thief as well? It seems only a person in that business would approve of this abuse.
I am beginning to think you are just a bored fake with only this forum for entertainment. You are not a Malcom-X or a Farrakhan, not even a half decent imitation so stop trying. I don't think you are impressing anyone, leave the clowning to expert professionals like Malema or Chuene.

The Moxster, don't argue with fools because people from a disrance can't tell who is who!

Andre Scheepers, "At least in the previous dispensation (white) government officials involved in fraud and corruption were sent to jail" ??? What the fck are you talking about, dude ?
You call that excuse for ymca's jails ?

And those perpetrators you mentioned. Can you, factually, state what percentage prosecuted corruption charges made up of the total corruption percentage of the government at that time ?
In any event, yours is only an example of those the government CHOSE to prosecute. They were indeed small fry compared top what their masters got up to.

Shame, leave the poor man alone. He didn't know hotels were that expensive!!!!!! Ummmmmm...............

khwela: Its because the majority of South Africans vote along racial lines, and with a passion for a liberation movement, for something they did 20 years ago.

And because of the food parcels, and free yellow shirts.
That I paid for by the way.

There is nothing wrong with Moxsters' point of view he agrees with everyone that Mr Mthwethwa's behaviour is unbecoming of the position of trust bestowed to him. Dont play the man tackle the ball - Nathi Mthethwas' irresponsible behaviour.

Me no feed the (sevillano) troll !!!

Sinu, "Its because the majority of South Africans vote along racial lines" ???
How is this different from the minority of South Africans voting along racial lines ?
The difference is that the majority want a change to their lives, for the better, while the minority still want to hold onto that that is long past.

OMG! Enough already. This is not about race. You get white and black bastards. They are all the bloody same. In this case the pattern we are so used to of ANC of frivolity and decadence can lead to nothing good. It's hard to even deal with individual incidents when the news is just jam packed full of it all the time. And if you are still fighting for or against apartheid then it is time for a catcha-wakeup call. It's over! Wake up and smell the new SA.

Why does this kind of abuse continue?

http://richmarksentinel.com/rs_articles_contributors.asp?conid=5&recid=554&pcurr=1

The minority pretends that IT didn't happen ...
The majority pretends that we forgive ...

Right. It is now time for a tax boycott. I refuse any longer to pay my extremely hard-earned money into this sink of theft, corruption, self-importance, misrule, incompetence, arrogance and total disregard for the realities of this impoverished and benighted country. Screw the ANC. Screw the government. Soon may they fall. Short live! Short live! Awethu!

iAfrika: Dont let Johncarlos see that you are playing the race card. You forgot to mention the Crossley murder as well!

Moxie: If the majority want to change their lives for the better, I think theyd better stop hoping the ANC will deliver it to them.

The cadres only care about staying in 5 star hotels, and European luxury vehicles.

The Moxster on October 19, 2009, 12:57 pm

'...The difference is that the majority want a change to their lives, for the better, while the minority still want to hold onto that that is long past...'

I bet you that the percentage of black people voting DA far exceed the percentage of white people voting ANC.

Mayibuye iAfrika
Isn’t it strange that when white people commit a crime their race is of utmost importance! When a black person commits a crime his skin colour is not mentioned. Why is this?

Sydney Gumbi- we are not playing football and the Moxster aleays hides the ball under his shirt.
Moxster- Why don't you emigrate to Iran? they love your kind there and they'll probably give you a better salary. They are living proof of what happens when you stay out in the hot sun for to too long but you shouldn't worry, you are quite ready.

where are your comments on the Reitz Four???

iAfrika: Under the Reitz 4 articles.

Simple - steriotype blacks are percieved by some quartes as backward and barbaric - killing is synonymous to them, for those raised as Christian remember black Devil and White Jesus with Maria and crop of white saints.......than it makes you wonder. Oooh I nearly forgot some of us who grew up in the T/ship the culture of violance was state sponsored- by than NP.. NNP..DA.. - white run parties -so similar just different time minus inability to sponsor crime. Makes you wonder indeed Moloko

Moxster:

Which 'people' would that be that predicted the end of the ANC ... they too need(ed) a dose of reality!

What is racist or emotional or bitter about "...If you can answer 'yes' to a single question, you are in dire need of a dose of reality..."

It's called an O B S E R V A T I O N ....

Your comment about oxymoron (which is a figure of speech) makes no sense - so sorry, can't reply to that one ...

Moxter, is it a simple knee jerk reaction that when you see the word "majority" you read "black"? "The majority" referred to simply means that MOST SOUTH AFRICANS VOTE RACIALLY, some white and some black. Racism can only exist if it continues to dominate our thoughts, do youself a favour, really, and broaden your mind so that a little sunshine can come in.

With this time being a buyers market our government needs to purchase property in major cities and all provinces, where ministers would need to book their stay at the beginning of the year over a 12 month period.

The properties should be eco friendly and fitted with solar power panels, should they use Eskom the utility bills should be spit between the ministers that stay there over the 12 month period.

We should all be posting solutions whether they are valid or not and maybe our President JZ would use these comments to consider the options and maybe implement them.

I think we can all agree that complaining does not solve the problem, let us try and be part of the solution.

Action speaks lowder than words....Viva ANC Viva

R570 k could build a school?

Should I still reach into my wallet when I see begging adverts for starving Africans in need (we don’t live in SA)?

From the outside – it seems that as a nation you are insistent on race bickering.

The issue here is abuse of power (regardless of his race) and public funds whilst you have starvation, poverty and dire lack of education facilities.

All the other side issues are just a smoke screen for the reality.

It is very basic and simple…..

Are these actions – right or wrong?

If he is wrong (regardless of his race) why is he not made to stand down / repay the money or imprisoned?

If there is some other code in your government that lets this continue and fails to right the wrong you have a very sad future as a nation.

Your future are your children – why deny them education?

Jon Poole, on which planet do you live ? Uranus ?
Where in my comment/s (above) do I make mention of the words 'black' or 'white' ? Or the words 'race' or 'racism' for that matter ?
Talk about kneejerk reaction ....... tsk.

@ The Moxter. October 19, 2009, 12:45 pm

The answer to your question:

It is the square root of the total liters of milk produced by the Yak-cows in lower Nepal, divided by 11. Add to this a third of the circumference of the earth minus the daytime temperature in South Dakota. This will give you the percentages you are looking for.

Please – you are really irritating – if you ask stupid questions you will get stupid answers. To get into arguments with you is a waste of time.

Sydney Gumbi on October 19, 2009, 1:25 pm

Sydney, I’m sorry but I do not fully grasp your explanation. Are you saying that if a white person commits a crime his skin colour is relevant, however, if a black person commits a crime, stating his skin colour is racial stereotyping? So, should we the except that for all crimes committed in SA, if a skin colour is not mentioned we should accept that it was a black person that committed the crime?

I am really gatvol with this f#ker, sh!t, se m@er man! Initially I thought this was just one of those reports that are based on speculation but this is becoming too frequent and no one from the high ranks within the ANC is willing to at least confirm or deny the allegations. This is sickens me to the core.

Andre Scheepers/ sinu.... and all other fools!

If you think that the past gvmnt was not corrupt then you are only exposing your own level of intelligence, or lack thereof!!

Get a hold of a report called "Apartheid Grand Corruption" by the Institute of Security Studies and then come back and tell us that there was proper prosecution of corrupt officials...

From stealing state funds to fund the military to gvmnt tenders to Saambou banks, to shifting state funds into off-shore investment accounts, to passing Bills that don't allow MNET to flight the News as it was not a gvmnt company, and the list goes on...

The previous gvmnt was far more corrupt and made sure they hid it! SA has never seen the transparency that opposition parties are enjoying under ANC rule.

You people are quick to cry about the Arms Deal, you would breath a sigh of relief if you see the billions that were stolen from the taxpayers money and were used to buy arms for the SANDF!!

The previous gvmnt spent more money on the military than on education!! Those very same corrupt officials and businessman walk our streets and live in plush homes and occasionally come out and speak "in defence" of our constitution, which they didn't allow for their own people

2boy: I KNOW the apartheid government was corrupt. Never said they were not. But, like someone said, does that justify the ANC government to be corrupt?

By the by, the current government also spent more on Arms than education.

the past govt's corruption is not license for the current govt to be corrupt.
simple fact.

somebody above suggested that we offer solutions rather than complain. In that spirit, I wish to suggest that the ANC cadres are put onto performance based salaries and perks. This would allow for these type of rewards ONLY for ministers who are performing well and truly above their expectations. They should be set targets by the presidency, and salary pegged to various outcomes. Poor performance, then you earn the bare minimal, and stay at F1 hotel. Solve the crime problem once and for all, and General Cele can live in the Mount Nelson - just by way of example.

performance based salaries and perks will just cost the taxpayer more - more people to give sweetners to for a good rating...

Moxter - Jah boet

Sinu and Mcintosh, as always, you fail to see 2Boy's point yet again.
The current govt is not corrupt.
There are individuals therein who may be corrupt (and who should be brought to book), but to make a blanket statement that the govt is corrupt would be foolish.
Besides, if that were true, then your corruption 'charges' are also aimed at COPE, DA, ID, IFP, UDM etc, for they all form part of this 'ANC govt' of which you make mention. And contrary to the minority's popular belief, ours is not a one party state.

maybe the people can vote (like on idol) via SMS, online, and drop feedback forms in banks and post offices. These can be tallied by the presidency. Poor feedback versus good feedback. If you like the tourism minister, and are convinced he's doing a good job, then there's an incentive to offer him a vote or two.

It is indeed disgusting to think that these politicians can use tax payers hard ean money to subsidise their lavish lifestyles and we having to accept the ever increasing prices on basic foods, etc increases and yet the policians want to justify it. There should be a total review of benefits to all politicians. We are being told to cut down on spending but yet the fatcats living it up at our expense! I think its time that the people take back the rights we fought for and give politicians their marching orders.

Sinudeity @gmail.com

NO! The arms deal was a once off deal. The old gvmnt poured billions after billions after billions in the military legally and ILLEGALLY!!

No, it does not justify the few, very few, corrupt officials in government!! However, my argument is that you cannot characterise a whole party based upon a few corrupt individuals because that wouold mean that all companies/entities/orgs/gvmnts are corrupt because NONE are immune from corruption...

moxster, 2boys point is that the previous govt was more corrupt therefore the 'little' corruption we see now must be ignored.
nah, i don't buy that crap.
' the current govt is not corrupt. There are individuals' - far far to many who just get 'redeployed' instead of getting thrown in the slammer, or in China style - executed. That the govt does this implies it condones corruption and is therefore in my eyes corrupt.

'Racism can only exist if it continues to dominate our thoughts, do youself a favour, really, and broaden your mind so that a little sunshine can come in.' Jon Poole on October 19, 2009, 1:37 pm ------------------------------------------------------------


Put that on billboards on Rivonia rd. Also outside Moxter's, 2 Boy and Malema's houses please. Oh, and also on the front door of all of our schools. Our nation will be the better for it! Theres no way the a half million rand hotel account can be justified while there are still people 'doing their business' in holes they have dug themselves behind their shacks.

Saddest thing is that the Minister will not be held accountable for his actions.

Calm down, lads! This is a classic example of what George Orwell predicted in his novel "Animal Farm". Let Mr. Mthethwa enjoy his benefits. After all, he is either just another innocent victim of apartheid... or too dumb to realise that he isn't and that he's got an example to set.

Why does the same thing happen again and again?
Why can't Zuma - or anyone - do anything about it?
Why doesn't Mthethwa resign or someone make him?
Why are threats of voters voting for another party pointless?
What is wrong with SA's 'democracy'?

http://richmarksentinel.com/rs_articles.asp?catid=2&recid=554&pcurr=2

It's unfortunate to see such elements still availabe in the public offices. We need Public office bearers who stand in support of the president's service delivery and of course cost cutting. May be the President will look at it seriously and cosider replacement as a way again to curb such activities in other departments. The National police force is poorly equiped while the Minister is enjoying the luxury of tax payers' money. Surely let's applaud the president when he solve such problems, especially by dismisal. How can his men (police officers) be responsible then? Through need to enjoy like the boss, they will surely solicit for bribes.

The Moxster

True my man. I and yourself have never denied corrupt officials in gvmnt/anc BUT we maintain that the few bad apples cannot characterise the entire movement!!

We are far from a one party state!!

Ian mcintosh

NO! it must be exposed, however, do not characterise a whole movement based upon a few corrupt individuals...

2boy: A government is corrupt, when it does nothing about said corrupt officials.

Our government protects and promotes corrupt 'individuals'.

2Boy, you can actually call a government corrupt when they condone corruption. This even if not all members of said government are corrupt. The fact that we hear about this kind of shocking behaviour all to often attests to the fact that it does happen, even if not quite as frequently as reported. If the government detests corruption, then they must eradicate it. From my many years as an ANC supporter, I was under the impression that our party had promised to uplift community and country, not the individual. And on the subject of arms deals, it is well known that this is the easiest platform from which to embezzle- masterfully implemented by the NP and continued with gusto by the ANC.........

2boy: PS, Total budget spent on education in South Africa, since 1994: R123 billion
Armsdeal cost: R200 billion

The ANC is dead. Long live the ANP.

If the party cannot root-out the 'very few' corrupt individuals, then doesn't this make the 'entire organisation' corrupt?.

Jacqui Rennie

"The fact that we hear about this kind of shocking behaviour all to often attests to the fact that it does happen, even if not quite as frequently as reported"

Yes Jacqui, you HEAR about it alot. The media that reports these allegations are the very same media that made sure that Pre-94 conditions were maintained. In all honesty the corruption that is constantly thrown in our faces is the same old cases;

the arms deal and travelgate! We have been constantly hearing about these allegations!

Moloko and Sinudeity the racist ideologues are at it again....you guys are damaged good.

So a Cabinet Minister must stay in a umkhukhu to discharge his responsibilities. Is it really painful to see a black minister driving cars and staying in hotels.........they should rather drive bicycles and stay in dingy establishments neh'.

They are used to poverty and should stop living like South African whites.....yeah, this nation is really sick!!!!

Sinudeity @gmail.com

"PS, Total budget spent on education in South Africa, since 1994: R123 billion
Armsdeal cost: R200 billion "

You must be high!

"Overall, the total education budget allocation for 2008/09 was revised upwards from R121-billion to R123,4-billion and is expected to grow by an annual average of 10,4% in the next three years. This indicates the Cabinet's commitment to "improving the quality of education and skills development to broaden opportunities for our people and to raise our level of productivity", Manuel said."

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-30-education-gets-some-relief

2boy The One, always half ass answers, always blaming others for your corruption and incompetence. Bite the bullet looser, you and your ilk have been exposed. ANC scum!!!

We have all lambasted Mthethwa's behavior as disgusting. We have also said we need an alternative to the ruling party. Point of correction: That party will not be DA or any other white supremacist party. This country and this continent will NEVER again be run by Europeans. To those white supremacists, you must chill, give us some credit we will rather die poor Africans than be made slaves again!

if we ignore the loonies and go by the last contributers we have a decent discussion!

firstly, corruption by the old government does not entitle our legitimate government to wholesale corruption. it is like equating affirmitive action to to racism. besides, the previous government corruption was not my point. the point is the transparency of the current government, given the previous ones corruption, was always going to make it look corrupt. and it would be foolish and ignorant to think otherwise. so the point is, given the ernomity of government corruption pre '94, it is strange to see so many south african who where very quiet during 'a crime against humanity' corruption period and, by all assumptions, contented with the government, so suddenly find voice against corruption in government, which, by all accounts, is miniscule in degree compared to what was happening here.

so the question becomes, what drives this criticism? is it credible criticism? my problem is the venom with which it comes across. almost like it is from the klan. very scary and intended to put the black man in his place.

as i said, south africans have a good appetite for a fair fight. this government knows that more than many out there. they will not mess up for the fun of it or arrogantly think they are invincible. even as a staunch anc supporter, change will be instituted if the least whiff of arrogance is sensed!


edwin matlapeng

Lets say the entire ANC is corrupt will that make all DA structures to be Botoxed following in the footstep of dear leader MA- MADAM GOGZILLE herself puffing fire and firind in all cylindes blank shots. Help whether this kind of generalisation is helping anyone.

Moloko,

DA scum!!!!!!!!!

Is it possible for you to debate issues without insulting everyone and making everything racial??? I guess not, apartheid has taught you so well!!!!!!

@Proudly_South African Proudly_South African ..

You R an example of that...,you,yo-self and you!

Other 4fingers r pointing@yoself!

Yebo!

2boy The One on October 19, 2009, 3:35 pm
The only reason you keep hearing about it, is because the ANC governement does nothing about it. And if they do they protect their "OWN" and no one is held resposible.

Edwin - in the current age we have the benefit of the internet and easy forums in which to express views - in the Nats era this was not available, i guess the equivalent would have been letters to the newspapers (but then only a few..). so the 'quietness' back then vs now is not really comparable?
btw - i don't think criticism of the anc and the corrupt persons in it (which is not to say all..) should be taken as ' intended to put the black man in his place'.
sure there are some that imply that, as there are comments from freedom, psa etc who are the opposite side but equally venomous..best disregarded as not much sense coming from them. enjoy your contributions as at least you can see some thought has gone into them.

The whole tone of this debate as once again deteriorated into a silly racial issue that detracts from the main issue. Mthethwa's extravagant behaviour isn't a good example, especially in the face of this massive recession. Without in anyway trying to excuse Mthethwa's behaviour we should also bear in mind the behaviour of people like Bernard Madoff in the recent US banking scandal and remind ourselves that this sort of behaviour stretches right across colour and cultures and doesn't merely confine itself to the ANC or Africa. Moeletsi Mbeki's recently released book titled The Architects of Poverty is so refreshingly open and honest about the reasons why we are going wrong - I would suggest you all read it.

Proudly_South African Proudly_South African

Sorry man, but not DA. Guess again... And please leave race out of the argument. It's not doing your credibility any favours. Secondly, your reply on the N2 Gateway lashing you received is eagerly awaited.

Ian mcintosh

"in the current age we have the benefit of the internet and easy forums in which to express views - in the Nats era this was not available, i guess the equivalent would have been letters to the newspapers (but then only a few..). so the 'quietness' back then vs now is not really comparable?"

there you go again, talking trash!!

1) The gvmnt passed a law that didn't allow journalists to bring cameras to townships

2) when MNET was formed the gvmnt again implemented a clause that prohibited MNET from broadcasting news

3) SABC was the voice of the NP in showing white people "lovely" SA that they tought they lived in!

If the NP ruled right now then we wouldn't enjoy the kind of transparency we have in modern day SA and denying that is just plain stupid!! I think if it was up to you then you would go back to the "good ol' days"...

how do u fight corruption if pocket filled with blood samples of corruption.looting,ill disciplines,power hungry is the tag attached to the party cadres

the man seems to have taste for expensive things.i'm not surprised,the company he keeps.fuck him and his extravagant lifestyle at taxpayers expense.i don't usually use the f-word but i'm so pissed off right now.next year,i'm not submitting my tax return and if i could i wouldn't pay my taxes either.let's burn the selfish bastard!

"This hotel is REALLY NICE!!...."

Why won't he have to pay the money back and will Shaik probably be pardoned?

http://richmarksentinel.com/rs_articles.asp?catid=2&recid=554&pcurr=2

There are 2 groups of people in this country. Those who pay tax and those who vote our leaders into power. The latter are not taxpayers apart from the miniscule amount of VAT they may pay on their cellphone prepaid vouchers. Us the taxpayers are not respected at all. Bastards!

If we keep protecting people in leadership on the basis of colour then we are no better than the previous regime. Wouldn't it be a welcome change to debate issues on their merit rather than turning them into a racial debate.

My 2 cents, 3 options,
1. Mthethwa pays back the money,
2. resigns
3. is fired.

Any self respecting individual holding public office would go for option 1. I'm not holding my breath on any of the options becoming a reality. That's just how much faith i have in those tasked with running the country.

2boy. keep up please. talking about social commentary now vs then. its not comparable due to the advances of the internet, the nats would find it tricky now...
btw, you do know about certain newspapers that reported the truth back in the old days don't you? that back then people realised that the sabc was a propaganda mouthpiece for the nats (as it is now for the anc).
you do know that using insults as a debating style is just mental laziness eh?

Proudly_South African Proudly_South African on October 19, 2009, 3:37 pm

Im lost bra so are you condoning Mthethwa's Actions?

Oour future is evry blik !!

2boy The One on October 19, 2009, 4:34 pm
If the NP ruled right now then we wouldn't enjoy the kind of transparency we have in modern day SA and denying that is just plain stupid!! I think if it was up to you then you would go back to the "good ol' days"...
==================================================================
Proudly_South African Proudly_South African on October 19, 2009, 3:37 pm 'Is it really painful to see a black minister driving cars and staying in hotels'
==================================================================
Are YOU able to debate issues without the race card 'safety net' hindering your thought processes?

These 'couple of bad apples' are ruining the whole cart and like I said before, the minister will not be held accountable for his actions in this case. And one more thing 2 Boy, Moxter and Proudly...the government is not failing because it's 'black', it's failing because it's failing!! It needs to change it's ways or step aside for the good of our nation.

Go for it boss. Rape the state coffers. Where is Zapiro on this one?

Wow. How excited people do get in defending the abuse of public funds by ANC Fatmen. What the deuce is wrong with you, my brothers? Is it that you are so blind, so childlike, that you love to lick the boots of corrupt Mafuta power?

It is quite clear that you have no regard for the Little Thin People of this country, just as the ANC scorns them for not having motorcars, Italian suits, garish and distaseful houses and insider tender deals etc.

I repeat: IT IS TIME FOR A NATIONWIDE TAX BOYCOTT. Woza!

The poor who mostly voted ANC do not know that ministers spent millions on luxuries, it is up to us those who have access to information to enlighten the people on how government should be held responsible for their action, otherwise the majority will be fed with propaganda by idiots who goes to our townships and try to cool the fire with lies. we need to stand up for our democracy. a family of five sleeps in one room shack while a minister indulge in luxury hotel. Our children walk Kilometers to and from school while our ministers are driven in luxury cars. our children go to bed on an empty stomach while our ministers enjoy themselves in high cost parties. we need to speak out and inform for the sake of our children. Tell the people!!!!!!!!!!!

The hotel expenditure was hopefully a once only, let's hope so in any case. What is of more concern is the taxpayers money that is paid to the "visiting" Aristede's from Haiti. This seems to be on-going and will eventually amount to millions. Have they by any chance been given Beemers?

What is the first question that any person with half a brain cell asks before checking into any hotel/lodge/BnB? The cost per night.
How come did such a trivial piece on information hide from the 'shoot to kill' minister?
This nigga is lying. Msholozi pleeeas fire Mthethwa so that all the people whose bums are in the government can learn of the word CONSEQUENCE.
All these claims about 'not knowing' or being 'unaware' are just dog pooh.

Pansi the Mafuta Club of the ANC.
Woza the Little Thin People of South Africa.
Woza the REAL revolution.
Amandla! Awethu!

Ive been saying this for ages......democracy as we know it is flawed, since every fool has a vote (which suits the AMC quite well). The only fair system is to only allow tax-paying South Africans to vote.

It really upsets me when a nobody like Mtetwe, can waste so much of my hard earned money on unnecessary extravagances.....accountability is an alien concept to Africans, but it is a pity that the honest hard-working tax-payer will just continue working and writing blogs, whereas the idiot ANC voter takes to the street and causes mayhem whenever he is displeased.