Suspend Reitz decision, ministry tells Jansen

Jansen is on an ego trip.He should be brought back to reality,taken out of his ivory tower and be appraised of the situation as experienced by the victims.Tutu should just go hook up with Asmal and fly "down the streets of New York"....or better still...just shut up!

Jansen should be fired for this decision. He also plans to close down UFS medical school. This man is bad news. We do not need him to run our lovely institutions. I think he is a puppet of DA and FF+

Prof. Jansen lied about him having consulted wildly before he make the decision. The victims were not consulted and the Ministry.

I guess he had to return their position and whatever bribes he got, telling them that he failed to do their dirty work

Thank Mr Nzimande. Who does he think he is taking such decisions without consulting. He must be fired period, Malema please say something as your word always goes.lol

Prof. Jansen has now been exposed as a liar. Who did this Prof. really consult? He did not consult the victims, he did not consult the ministry, nor the workers or black students. I am glad Blade Nzimande is a minister with balls that should act against Jansen with out delay.

It's about time that this chancellor be called to order - compensations will never reduce or alleviate the racism; the humiliation; the ill-treatment that these fellow ladies have endured. Their action was beyond despicably and it happened just when many of us were in a process of forgive the white people.
They must be jailed for life and be sorted out accordingly by prisoners.

Nzimande you are suggesting consultation on this matter? I'm sure your commie teachers always consulted with the masses before making decisions.

Yes, fire Jansen (a very learned and respected educationalist) and deploy some ANC/SACP/COSATU lackie to the post. That would be progress. Oh yes, buy him a BMW 750i while you're about it so the masses can see that he means business.

He deserve his wing to be cut a litle bit he thinks he can make a name for himself in the country by breaking other peoples spirit, let him refuse to leasten to Blade Nzimade so that he can be dealt with accordingly

Before people can call Blade Nzimande by names they must read first carfully because there is no where he said he disagree with the decision, but he disagree with the procedure that was taken in arriving in to the decision without the proper consultation of the victims as well as the Higher Education department...... who knows maybe Jansen met with the Reitz 04 and they discussed it with their parents over dinner and wine

This is nonsense. how can Jansen encourage racism?these boys must be punished for promoting racism acts.amandla!!!!!!!

Animal Farm-1209 commends and salutes the Minister of Higher Education and Training Dr. Blade Nzimande for his revolutionary stand at the face of these heinous and treasonous actions by Professor Jonathan Jansen and Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu.

Animal Farm-1209 had said it to Professor Jansen that Archbishop Emeritus Tutu was feeding him un-truths when he said the Prof. was making “us proud”, little did Animal Farm-1209 know that even the good Professor was feeding the whole nation lies when he claimed to have consulted.

Animal Farm-1209 feels vindicated that these two gentlemen want to make our Azania a racist banana republic by helping out racist whites to ill-treat our people as they please. Thanks Dr Nzimande for stopping them right on their dirty tracks, no-one should abuse our people and not be brought to book, not even an Archbishop should be allowed to get away with the murder.

Animal farm-1209 is heartened by the speed with which Dr Nzimande has acted in defense of our people and we would like to say “Keep it Up!” and as for these two treasonous gentlemen, Animal Farm-1209 will keep them in our prayers.

Blood, blood, blood. Now Jansen is the one whose blood some is after. It seems as if the commentators here equate Jansen with the Reitz 4. Ridiculous. Has anyone ever thought of how to assist the UFS with constructive suggestions on how to take the reconciliation project forward? Now here is a suggestion: what about intense sessions to tackle the internalised racism/oppression endemic to many black workers of low occupational rank? For the Malem and Mbalula praise singers: this means that the oppressed continues serving the oppressor in ways that are exactly the same as during the time when such servitude was expected by law or by force. Is that not part of the reasons why the UFS workers took part with glee when so brutally exploited? But no, it is politically incorrect to even raise such a ghastly idea because it is not popular. What is popular, is now to bay for Jansen's blood because he appeared to have forced "unisided forgiveness" onto all blacks in this country. I am black and proud of it but I cannot remain quiet when a good idea is rubbished by those who don't want to take the time to understand things beyond the first discomfort.

Nzimande, get an education. You're not fitted for this job.

Animal Farm-1209 needs to stop taking himself so seriously.

This is a discussion, not a talking point memo. Save it for the comrade get togethers.

The Ministry of Higher Education has given its opinion. Its allowed to do so, and thats that.

UFS is an autonomous institution. The government can give its opinion, but management decisions rest with the university.

That said, I also think Jansen's decision was premature. The video understandably caused a lot of pain.

Why don’t the Higher Education Minister do something useful for a change, its October and my nephew’s class are still waiting for textbooks that was paid for at the beginning of the year. Which is more important, 4 students who arsed around or over 300 learners who do not have the necessary school books? And this is just one school that I know of, how many others are in the same situation? Our whole education system lacks just about everything from books to educated teachers who actually arrive at the school to teach and I think there are much more pressing problems to attend to or is it perhaps that a lack of school books and teachers are not glamorous enough for the Minister and might actually entail some work?

Blade is a puppet of COSATU and the SACP.

I dont have much sympathy for the four, but this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. They never killed anyone. Fair is fair, how about instituting charges against Malema in view of his recent anti-white statements. I have no problem with the Reitz 4 getting bliksemed, but there seems a huge double standard between white on black racism and the way it is reported, and black on white racism, which seems to always be swept under the carpet. Weird, but I thought we were all equal..

I totally disapprove of initiation ceremonies in general, but sadly these traditions are commonplace in universities and colleges throughout the world. Even prestigious establishments like Cambridge University in the UK are not spared such depraved and often dangerous acts, some of which include forcing new students to down pints containing live goldfish! Some students get seriously ill from alcohol poisoning and one even died at Exeter in 2006 after being forced to down a lethal concoction of hard drinks.

Unfortunately for SA, in its infancy as a non-racial society, racism inevitably pokes it's horrible nose into all matters, as in the Reitz affair. These sorts of incidents will occur again and again in the future because human nature is cruel and students like to take the mickey out of others, especially young newcomers, unless something drastic is done about it.

A simple solution for SA would be to ban initiation rituals altogether from universities and colleges. This would spare 100s of fearful students of ALL COLOURS the shame and disgrace of being subject to such humiliating treatment at the hand of older students OF ALL COLOURS, while at the same ensuring that no potential racial conflict flares up as a result.

In France, the practice of initiation (or "bizutage" as it's known there) was banned by law in 1998, making it a punishable offence under the penal code with a prison sentence of 6 months and a EUR 7,500 fine for offenders.

Could SA not draft a similar law prohibiting dangerous and humiliating initiation ceremonies?

I remember that the ANC wanted to fire the UNISA vice chancellor, purely because she was a COPE supporter.

Jansen is boss of his house. He knows best.
He actually spends time at the university,
not at 5 star hotels.

lets hope a resolution is found which allows for all parties interests to be respected. That will only happen if all the parties start talking to each other behind close doors and not through the press. This matter goes to the heart of nation building and we are treating each other as enemies. If there has being a ill considered decision taken why not pick up the phone and say so. but this public spat is not helping us at all. decision

Universities observed an "Academic Freedom Day" every year during the apartheid era, during which prominent speakers spoke out against State interference in universities' autonomy to decide who they would or would not admit. Many of these prominent speakers are now known as leading figures in the ANC.

The irony is that those who cried loudest in support of university autonomy are now trying to dictate to the rector of UFS who he must and must not admit! Sheer hypocrisy writ large. They are trying to micro-manage the university when all the world knows the ANC's consistently dismal track-record of mismanaging everything they touch.

Dr Jansen, tell the ANC to mind its own business.

Firstly, to sechaba Motloung " I think [Jansen] is a puppet of DA and FF+." Grow up -- where is the DA or FF+ mentioned? What you're REALLY upset about is that Jansen is NOT a puppet of the ANC! Whether or not you agree w/ Jansen's decision, Blade and the ANC must stay out of the UFS's affairs. Ever heard of ACADEMIC FREEDOM? Or is the independence of the universities to be sacrificed on the ANC's alter of power, as we see happening with other state institutions such as the NPA and the JSC?

huh? politicians are allowed to dictate what universities decide? talk about the road to ruin...

@ Antony Boss, Sechaba Motloung , Xipanere Lexikulu , UmAfrica African , Animal Farm-1209 , JLG , Sinudeity, Jon Low,
Do you agree that if the bona fides of all parties involved are accepted, (The Ministry of Higher Education, OFS rector and senate, Archbishop’s Tutu, online commentators and all peace loving South Africans who believe in procedural and substantive justice) – it follows logically that they will all pursue the goal of procedural fairness because no one wants the primary victims to be marginalized in a power contest between the university, the Ministry and those looking out for the interests of the victims and perpetrators alike. Right?

Lets hope we see a demonstration of what reconciliation means in word and deed. The last thing we need now is grandstanding. This is an opportunity to see real leadership emerge under fire.

Yes...and let's call on uncle Blade to insist on Shabir's pardon to be turned down and on Jacob Zuma's corruption charges to be reinstated...yeah, right...

Nzimande is a minister with balls, he doesn't worship the racists. This issue must be given the seriousness it deserve, not to be put under the capert. The reason Blacks are still treated worse then pets, is because of peolpe like Prof Jansen who only think about their pockets and stomachs once they have ascended to influencial positions.

Does nobody recognise the creative content of this video. Everybody is so hung up on the whole black white thing that its become quite unimportant that what transpired was a mild issue not even worth printing. If anybody actually had a functioning braincell, it would be easy enough to realise that the video has become a symbol of injustice in many militant black cadres minds, but realistically, nobody can be punished for the revengeful thoughts of someone else, that would not be justice, just revenge.

Sinudeity, John Low and Ella Hume- Where is your usual sanctimonious and hypocritical white 'moral' outrage at Janseen's blatant lies? These institutions are funded by the state, and therefore the Ministry of Higher Education has every right to intervene when needs be. When tertiary institutions perform poorly, you people blade the 'incompetent' ANC government, and when government intervenes to correct a wrong you cry 'academic independance'. If 'academic autonomy' means being an apologist for fascists, then we can certainly do without it!
Your precious Janseen and senile Tutu can not forgive for what was not done to them. The workers have not forgiven those boys- who the hell is Janseen to undermine them. Blade can not be a puppet of the SACP, he is the leader of the Party, you morons.
Why is the DA so silent on this matter, when they usually noisy about everything else? If those boys go back to the university, that institution should be made ungovernable until the fascists are flushed out. Janseen don't try to score cheap points with white racists at our mothers' expense!

Pasile you sound just like a National Party supporter from the seventies and eighties. Amazing how quickly people turn into fascists if it suits them. Since when has a University been a court of law. "You people" sounds very much like the racists of that time as well. It seems we have just replaced the old National party with the new. I wonder if Zuma will be the PW Botha or Vorster of the ANC He certainly isn't intelligent enough to be Verwoerd

Two of those four high-spirited pranksters have already graduated from UFS and aren't ever going to be back anyway. And it's Jansen's right to run UFS according to his own judgements. That's how "academic freedom" works -- he doesn't answer to any 750i BMW driving pseudo-commie fatcat. So, if you don't like t, just suck it up.

Oh lighten up people! It was a prank that has been blown out of proportion. Isnt it enough that these young guys are facing criminal charges. I think the majority of you on this forum forget what racism really is, and just like the ANC muppets in government will grasp at any chance to run with the race card. They will have their day in court, (unlike Zuma), probably be found guilty of something, and get a fine. Yet to this point their lives have been made a living hell over nothing, and the victims of this crime I'm sure have had no issues in moving on. You bunch remind me of the kid in school who could never take a joke and ran to the teacher over nothing. Get a life.

Although what happened in the Reitz case is reprehensible, does UFS not bear its own share of responsibility for allowing these barbaric initiation rituals to take place on its campus in the first place?

Can we not broaden this debate beyond the racial aspect? It is terribly degrading for any human being to be subject to such abuse. There are certainly many young students (of all colours, for the overly colour-sensitive on this forum!) who suffer humiliation at the hands of older students during these horrible games at universities throughout the country.

The government ought to prohibit such savagery by passing a law making these rituals a punishable offence with prison sentences and/or a heavy fine. This has been done successfully in France and there have only been a few isolated cases reported since the law entered into force in 1998.

SA has got rid of capital punishment and corporal punishment in the schools. Ban initiation at universities as well and save future generations of students (and university staff )from being subject to these forms of degradation.

I wasn't around when all this happened, but wasn't the video proved to be a fake with paid participants? total lack of insight and bad taste as might have been expected from this age group but nonetheless still a fake.

Why aren't we getting any statements or accusations directly from the black staff members? The media should acquire this, as it will give insight into whether we should take Blade Nzimande serious or not. Those workers, for all we could know, are relaxing and checking the whole thing from a fence. "The view of the Department of Higher Education and Training is that we cannot allow victims of racism to be unconditional unilateral forgivers." - Sure he's not allowing it, but wasn't it their decision? So MR Nzimande is deciding FOR them?
This whole thing is screaming of the old race card.

People should not attack the person of Prof Jansen. We need to debate this decision. He has put his head on the block and the majority of black people are not happy. I feel he should have allowed the internal processes to run it's course, however, coming to UFS and immediately show whose running the show was always not going to be easy. We have a long way to go before we fully reconcile, it begins with small and big steps. The Prof has taken a giant leap, an unpopular one. Only time will tell if he made the right decision for UFS and for the country. I have learnt with time that racial intolerance is a science and we need to proceed with caution when dealing with it. We should not be emotional when we debate here. I am certain that the Prof did not arrive at this decision lightely and he has the best interest of the country and UFS, however there are some of us who have been ill treated at the hands of the our white country men and women and the scars are still healing. It is unfortunate that some are using this incident to advertise themselves and make populist statements. We need to bury the past and move on. I know it is painful, but reconciliation is a sweeter pill to swallow. Amandla!!!

The Prof wants to be popular. Now that he has it in the bag. He can do whatever he wants. Can you imagine what he would do if he was running the country? He would free all racist whites in the name of reconciliation. Prof is trying to please his bosses, that, white, racist council at UFS. Afrikaans is his second if not first language. UFS chose him knowing very well that he, the Prof, will protect their interests. It is a token appointment and we all know it. Black man with white blood running through his veins. Do you really think black people like nothing else other than money? We need to take control of these institutions. We can't let them be run by the broederbond. "All power". Thank Minister for your leadership on this saga.

One dumb question is, probably the university is going to gives these cleaners some money to buy them off, what prize can one attach to human dignity? they may sue these racist, and they will receive some compensation, once again, will it buy back their dignity? they will receive more money then what they ever had in their lives, and it will unfortunately it might go to waste, as these guys my not have the knowledge of how to work with money, and make it go far, will the university help? why does Jansen not help these cleaners, make a success of their lives, throw of the shackles of being a cleaner, of being a position where someone looks down on you, with no respect, not thinking, hey this place it actually clean, wow thank you, thinking that it must be like it
My question is why don’t the university help these cleaners becoming more then a cleaner, surly it is no one’s dream job to became a cleaner, make a success of their lives
One can argue that it was a prank that got out of hand, however why make a mock movie, for who’s enjoyment? taking the piss out of someone, and we think it is funny
Lastly what is it with South Africans and our toilet humour, is it that we have no confidence within ourselves, that we have to go as low as going to the toilet, thinking let’s take the last three movies of Leon Schuster, in each and every movie there is a toilet scene, and we except this, we laugh it off, it is innocent humour, it is just a joke (this one unfortunately went too far)

Is South Africa the only country where things like this happen in universities....I think not. So if it happens in the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and everywhere else, is it really a racially motivated issue?

Sure they were wrong and there are criminal charges to be answered for, but stuff like this happens all over the world so I dont think it is in anyone's interest to pursue this as a racial matter...

Fair enough - rescind the "forgiveness". Then let's see immediate action against the Judge (!) who won't shake a white man's hand and Malema's recent racist comments about whites !

Or is justice one-sided only, UmAfrica and Pasile ?

I havent heard of initiation ceremonies for workers in US colleges, i would like to see which colleges exactly.And it doesnt happen to students as well unless one is part of a fraternity but not for anything else.I am certain those boys at the end of the video said 'this is what we think of integration' a politically loaded statement and they should have been prepared to face the consequences of their actions.

Blade the Stalinist overplayed his hand, as they usually do. The vice-chancellorship of UFS is simply not his call to make. He may WISH it was, but it's not. And there is sweet blow-all he can do about it. That's all there is to it. The End. Jansen 1, Nzimande 0. Game over.

Kobus. Most pets I know of get treated like they are part of the family, and get 5-star treatment. Just because you handle pets badly, you use a really pathetic simile. I thought these kids had their day in court. If not, then blame your stupid ANC efficiency in the legal system, cos thats why there are so many criminals out there

Oh the ANC will run this story into the ground it wont stop till these stupid kids who made a stupid mistake are hung drawn and quartered. Maybe when there blood runs down the streets. This story is wonderful it takes the light of the shenanigans happening in the country things like paying R500000-00 for hotel accommodation and service delivery riots and hospitals falling apart and should we go on? These kids are paying a huge price for a prank where there were willing participants who were not forced to act in this video. These kids are still going to court mind you but that’s not good enough is it? No this country is fixated on racism and it seems racism only works one way

What a load of crap, who is now being racist, get the chip of your shoulders if a group of black people did this nothing would have been said, now its all political plus the so call workers who were involved now wants compensation thats what it is all about
political scoring and money you are pathetic

Jansen is actually a bigger liar than Chuene.......

Reconciliation is a three way process: acknowledgement, apology and forgiveness.

None of these happened - why is Jansen apologising on behalf of these indoctrinated savages, and how is this supposed to serve reconciliation when none of the three proceses occured........

Pasile - what a racist you are! For starters, how do you know that Sinudeity, John Low and I are white? I take issue with that assumption.
You have no understanding of academic -- or any other - freedoms. Saying that universities are funded by the state does NOT give the Minister or any other person the right to interfere in the governing of those institutions, just as the fact that the law courts are funded by the states give the Minister of Justice the right to interfere in judicial process.

I also DID not say that I approved of what Jansen did (gheez - can you even read something without your racist blinkered glasses?) In fact, I don't agree with what Jansen did - but the point is that the Minister and the ANC must stay out of the affairs of the UFS (as the DA are rightly doing!!) The people involved still have recourse to the courts - Jansen is not denying them that right.

Your mind is so twisted by seeing the world as filled only with "white" people (whom you seem to hate) and "black people", that you can't even follow the logic of an issue properly. Please slow down and think before you write.

Ella Hume,

We can see the colour of your politics............

Paul Vincent how would u feel if yo MAMA was made to do all that disgusting nonsense that those women had to go through??? Unless of course u condone that type of FASCIST BEHAVIOUR

Another problem is we blacks are always expected to forgive blatantly disgusting utterances and actions(in the spirit of Madiba) and when anyone makes a stand against that is declared a far left racist. Jansen made a complete mess and frankly he should fall on his sword and resign. I cannot forgive someone who has never apologized unconditionally for any racist actions. Its high time we have tough race crime laws in this country

Prof. Jansen should NOT suspend his decision. I think Bra Blade must just resign and make way for Minister Jansen. Black people must get over this victim shit. If the roles were reversed and white people were the victims would there be any fuss?

How on earth do you expect the council not to back that dubious decision by Prof. Jansen. The fact of the matter is 95% of the council members of that university are white afrikaaners who will ensure that legal action against these bustards is not instituted by any means. This is an embarasment, I'm convinced that if proper channels of reconciliation were followed involving all stakeholders none of this would have happened, and unfortunately the noble Prof won't back down on his decision because he's employed by the university council and it's only the council that can move for his removal in his position.

Proudly_South African: My national vote didnt go to the DA. I consider myself apolitical (With regards to which party I support). I merely back the horse that will advantage South Africa the most.

PS, have you researched the 'lies' I posted you?

Reconciliation cannot be outlined by one person who wasn't even part of the humiliation, so Prof. Jansen must just suspend his decision to reinstate the Reitz four and try a proper means to can solve this together with all the stakeholders involve whereby a proper consultation must be done. I believe Archbishop Tutu knows the procedure wich was followed in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Proudly Black

"Ella Hume: We can see the colour of your politics" Proudly-S-African - what the F***K does THAT mean? How dare you suggest that all Black people should think the same way you do. That is not democracy, but oppression. And it is condescending. Did we fight for decades to get rid of the Nats only to have them substituted with fascists of a different hue? If you'd been an Afrikaner in the '70s you would have voted time and time again for the racist Nats, b/c all you care about is power and race -- Verwoerd is laughing in his grave, knowing that A*** like you are carrying on his dirty work for him.

So he learnt to lie from the ASA. Would love Malema to give a stupid comment again. Why not support him like ASA?

Jansen was out of order. A lot of commentators have re-iterated that Jansen has no standing to act the way he acted. Chief amongst the reasons is that he didn't even bother to consult with the victims of such unthinkable conduct by those four evil students.

Jansen's announcement of the sad news helped him to be in a lot of publications and caucus forum than his degrees did but it remain very fatal. I am not related to those poor mothers but I kept imagining what if one of them was my mother? I would have been in hospital for severe shock as a result of Jansen's announcement.

Vice Chancellor outlaws any initiations
19Oct 2009
The new Rector and Vice Chancellor of the University of Free State, Professor Jonathan Jansen, has warned students who conduct initiation on first years that they will face criminal prosecution.
“As from next year, any senior student who lays his hand on a first year student will not only be brought before a disciplinary committee, but will face criminal prosecution in the courts under the charge of assault,” Professor Jansen said.
I definitely do not support what took place against the Cleaners and that disciplinary steps must follow as well as the court processes"Unquote. Whatever the outcome the four will have to live with it.The question I ask is when you do wrong do you not have the right to be rehabilitated to show you that the old way is wrong and then to go forward with the rest of South Africans. Is that not happens when you steal, rob etc. You go to jail for rehabilitation to make you a good Citizen.
The other question is:- Did or do senior students black and white not carry out initiations on first year black and white students. I am sure they do.What are they any different to what took place with the cleaners. Those intitiations are degrading. The law has to be more enforced to stop the degrading of people

How Effectively everybody is using this minute incident to SMOKE SCREEN:
a) 290,000 Murders in SOUTH AFRICA since 1994-So common it doesn't even make the front pages of any news paper
b) 500 RAPES per day +- 5000 Burglaries a day - Crime etc...etc.
c) Billions of Rand being squandered by every division of our HOLY ANC government on Luxury CARs, HOTEL Accommodation, oversees trips, massive salaries and bonuses for Mismanagement, court cases which ridicule the justice system while millions of people live in hunger and poverty.
I saw the video several times and those cleaners enjoyed the whole episode thoroughly.
IT seems as if the cleaners were very quickly coerced into becoming the suffering victims
The reason why China is colonizing Sub- Sahara Africa at a lightning pace is simply that Sub- Sahara Africa is kept busy with their unintelligent trinkets!!!!!+

so its okay to lie if you are protecting whites? but when choene lie he was called to resign hell even been fired by most of you, how many lies that Jansen will preach from now on, how can you trust a lier to run a vasity, oh i forget this time its favours whites, so its okay.

Inviting the Reitz 4 back was going too far, but most people seem to forget that, by and large, Prof Jansen's measures are directed at preventing future incidents of racism and unrest at what should first and foremost be an institution of learning. Furthermore, they forget that the university is not a court of law, and cannot mete out punishment once students had left. It is up to the court to try the students, decide if they are guilty and decide on suitable punishment if found to be so, not the vice-chancellor of UFS.

I laughed out loud when I read Nzimande's statement, "The view of the Department of Higher Education and Training is that we cannot allow victims of racism to be unconditional unilateral forgivers."

Surely it is up to a person to decide for him or herself whether or not they are want to forgive? Bearing a grudge - however justified - can be more painful than forgiveness to the bearer, but it is so much more politically exploitable...

Sinudeity @gmail.com, I think it is a good decision for you to be apolitical because you do not comprehend this things. you describe organisation as if you are speaking about a "Human Being". Blade Nzimande is secretary General of the SACP, then how can he be a puppet of the organisation that he runs, If you understand what I mean. Try and use your computer for something else and stop wasting time.

"Is South Africa the only country where things like this happen in universities....I think not. So if it happens in the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and everywhere else, is it really a racially motivated issue?"

You forget none of these countries practiced apatheid as did South Africa - so no comparison there.

For all those that are supporting Jansen - have you ever been to the UFS? I have as I am a student there. Classes are still split racially with the blacks forced to attend evening classes and the Afrikaans (white) students attending day classes (dont ask me who draws up the timetable). To top it all, it is no secret that the quality of education is racially motivated with the best lecturers hired being for the Afrikaaners. Hostels - are still divided across racial lines, with the majority belonging to the whites and only a couple for the blacks.

So for those of you who say we should get over the race issue - how can we when the whites (at least at UFS) still enjoy certain priviledges that are closed off for the blacks? This is why the Reitz students felt compelled to "produce" the movie and up to now have not apologized since they dont see anything wrong with it. Afterall the cleaners were just lowly black women and a man who they probably still see as a "boy". And no they are not children but adults, they knew what they were doing. They just didnt care because they knew society would protect them (as it is doing now) because they are have the money to pay off lawyers and to probably bribe Jansen.

On another matter why should UFS use University money to compensate the victims? I and most black students who felt aggrieved by Jansen's decision pay tution fees at that university so why didnt he consult us?

Perhaps Jansen should realise that but for the grace of God, he would have been the victim of the Reitz four. Those students dont look at the value of a human being but at the colour. For now he is secure in his castle but I pray that he does not meet with the four outside of the university where they will not recognise him and therefore treat him as nothing more than a black man - in their eyes worse than a dog!

@ Niki W - "Surely it is up to a person to decide for him or herself whether or not they are want to forgive? Bearing a grudge - however justified - can be more painful than forgiveness to the bearer, but it is so much more politically exploitable"

Except the victims did not decided to forgive. Prof Jansen decided on their behalf without even consulting them!

To all of those siding with Nzimandi's and other hypocrites's, B*ll Sh*t. I dare you to comment on the following article which featured on News 24. And for once in your life: please try to be honest and do not make this out to be a reaction to the circumstances.

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/0263bc53a9a1417b8dfdc0a82b9629d7/04-03-2008-06-08/Probe_black_racism_at_UFS

Urine or no urine what those cleaners subjected themselves to is humiliating. They are culpable for their own naivety.

In a normal society as the notable Pan Africanist and Marxist C. R James put it, "the race question is subsidiary to the class question". The thing is the boys performed a prank not only on black people but on people of lower social class than theirs. It happens everywhere where there are those misanthropics who consider themselves clever and others fools . It is called a barbecue like in the French movie Le Diner de Cons.

The conditions for a roast are as follows. There must be a discrepancy in social class between the victims and the players of the game. There must be a perception deriving from class that the victims are intellectually inferior to the players. Above all the victim will be a free attendee who is not forced. All these conditions were met at UFS more than in most situations where people have been made fools of. I still mantain that the victims are equally culpable for what happened to them.

Professor Jansen has meted out the greatest punishment that anybody could have thought of on those boys. By droppping confrontation with the boys who still face charges brought by the state he has put the lives and minds of those boys in a flux. There is no racial matyrdom for them. Equally as black people what is the punishment for those parents of ours who consented to be videoed doing what they were doing?
Were any conditions of employment violated by their actions? Do they really want to go to court?

Forgive my cynicism.

To Andre Scheepers - Be honest and ask yourself what AfriForum represents? White superiority? They are not interested in what happens to the blacks at the UFS campus. If it were up to the leader the Reitz incident would be the norm and not the exception.

Gert Van Niekerk,

Chinese do not think like the Afrikaners..........don't worry!

"Chinese do not think like the Afrikaners..........don't worry!" No they don't, Proudly-South African -- they are far more brutal. If the Chinese take over Sub-Saharan Africa, which they are in the process of doing, they'll make apartheid look like a picnic. Amazing how someone who derides many whites for ignoring the suffering of the black people under apartheid can similarly ignore the suffering of those in Burma and Tibet that the Chinese are systematically and brutally oppressing -- not to mention the fact that there is widespread exploitation of workers in China.

"They'll make apartheid look like a picnic"- ha!ha!ha! can you believe the chutzpah of the former oppressors.

It is only the Afrikaners who can invent such brutality and criminality because of their laager mentality............Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders should be very worried....this bunch are very self centred and hate other races, especially black race!!!!!!!!

@ Mary Kachana. on October 22, 2009, 10:30 am

It is clear you did not understand the point I wanted to make: there is also black racism at UFS. I wanted to add this to the discussion which has been extremely one sided, up to now. Afriform is not under discussion and most certainly not an organization for white superiority. If you do not have an argument refrain from making wild accusations and unfounded remarks, without familiarizing yourself with facts.

jansen should be fired and leave south africa in peace with other racists like john..., gert van....

viva Malema viva!!!

y the sudden silence by the D.A ON this issue coz they usually vocal and they are good in criticising something they are against..

There are ugly tendencies to still potray people as not equal in South Africa. Institutions of higher learning such as the University of the Free State is a clear example. The comments being being made on the Reits incident indeed indicate that there are still remanents of racism which people are shying away from. The decision that Jansen has taken regarding the Reitz incident appears to be perpetual tendency to regard other people as better citizens even better the laws of this country. The point is clear and straight forward: no consultation was made prior to it. I don't know if the word wide consultation is only applicable internal processes of this farm university. If the government, our government is not consulted on decisions being taken regarding this cruel and inhuman act and with a dignified professor claiming to have consulted widely on the issue, the situation then boils down to that of abuse of authority in the eyes of God and the victims. It is also therefore equally fit to say that Jansen is not the right to lead this institution which has been struggling to transform since the demise of apartheid.

it high time we stop being victims of racist act in our our country

@Gert
Overexaggerated internationally-far fetched stats to illustrate the dull-purpose of the western-minded leftists does not address the point before hand. The real debate is the dispicable "so-called prank" behaviour that degraded a black person to the core.

Proudly SAfican says;"ha!ha!ha! can you believe the chutzpah of the former oppressors." As a current oppressor,I'd advise you to get off your soapbox before you fall on your race - er, I mean face.

William Sithonga brings up a valid point- by allowing these young men back into the varsity, they are not made martyrs to the cause. How can they motivate their racism when the example set to them by Jansen et al flies in the face of their absurd idea of integration and racial reconciliation- the subject of their video?

Also, I have to keep reminding myself while I try to keep a handle on my disgust for these young men, that there is more dignity in forgiveness than in revenge... Mary Kachana's comments are also very disturbing- seems Jansen has a lot of work ahead of him.

I have just read the article by the good Professor in the Times and there is no doubt in my mind that the man has such an appreciation of racism that behoves us to grant him the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/article161184.ece

As for the victims who are primarily victims of class "violence" then secondarily racial victims it needs another approach than to be dragged through cross examination in a court of law. For starters when did they become victims of racism? The moment they consented to kneel down and eat like animals, the minute they took the beer or the minute they were video taped. Or is it when some white boy released the controversial video? Or maybe when they stepped into the reputedly racist Reitz. To tell the truth their behaviour with all due respect to their ages and circumstances was disgusting and embarassing to say the least.