Joburg's main tourist attraction? Its violent past

this is all very true, David..........but there is lots to see around here besides the nentioned. I just had an aunt out from Denmark, and we spent 2 weeks sightseeing, started at the Krugersdaorp Game Reserve, Walter Sisulu Botanical Gardens with the Witpoortjie Waterfalls, Heia Safari Ranch with The Heritage Dam, The Lesedi Cultural Village, Hartebeespoort Dam and the Market, Margaret Roberts Herb Garden, The Elephant Sanctuary, De Wildt Cheetah Sanctuary, Rhino and Lion Reserve and The Wonder Caves, The Heritage Sites and Sterkfontein Caves, Lion Park in Muldersdrift, The Voortrekker Monument, The Union Buildings, Pretoria Zoo, The Mint , The Carnivore REstaurant, Casalinga Italian Country Restaurant. Only once did we go to a shopping Centre, and that was Cresta to buy a silver bracelet for her daughter. How about Magaliesburg Village and Gold Reef City mining village ???? I could go on and on and on, there is lots to see in Johannesburg besides Soweto and apartheid museums. To miss out on Johannesburg would be a loss, but then again, what can you do in 2 weeks, it will have to become a love of the country where you keep returning for another bite, like a friend of mine also from Denmark who now is on her 8th visit to us, once a year, and each year we take a bite of the country, last year Mmpumalanga, this yeear we will tackle some of the Cape.

You cannot beat Joburg for it's drive and chutzpah.
It retains its roots of a busy get rich quick mining town.
There is a definite buzz about the place.
Cape Town is slow and sleepy.
I actually prefer going to JHb than Cape Town

.......and in JHB you feel very safe, free and welcomed.

It is so sad to see journalist always looking on the dark side, regarding this country. We know there is crime, but then it exists in most parts of the world. I live in CT and enjoy its natural beauty, yet Jhb and all the other parts of South Africa are also very special with unique attributes. Stop ripping SA apart and start building its image, keeping in mind its shortfalls. It is so easy to be destructive and journalists love doing that, since it sells papers!!!

Specially leaving OR Tambo...

I'm staying in CT, do go to Joburg every now and then, truth be told slow or no slow Cape Town is a winner when it comes to this topic.

Add to the List:
Mahatma Gandhi's home in Albemarle Street, Townsview;
The Gold Mine under the Standard Bank in Simmonds Street;
A walk at (around or in) the Tswaing Crater;
A visit to Freedom Park;
A visit to Jan Smuts's home in Irene;
Visit the historic Rand Airport;
A cruise on Loch Vaal from Stonehaven tea garden;
A visit to the Vredefort Dome;
View the Victoria Lake from the Germiston Country Club at sunset;
A trip on suburban train from Johannesburg to Pretoria;
A taxi ride from Brooklyn Mall to Mamelodi (on a quiet Saturday afternoon);
Dukathole and Alexandra;
Drive along Rockey Street Bellevue.
please add more!!

"Shot in the temple between the eyes?" That is certainly an atrocity -- either of language or of anatomy.

Spot on Piet.....

Jozi is the place to be

I was in the inbound tourism indistry - my advice to guests - South Africa is awesome, enjoy your trip and the freedome that 7 vastly different biomes and awesome culture offer. But spend as little time in Johannesburg as possible!

They know the risks, they appreciate the advice and they invariably love the country and it's increadible people.

Some even enjoy the cultural tours available in or around Johannesburg - but we did not advocate it unless they specifically asked for it.

Piet Opperman,

You are pulling a Brandon Huntley on us..........do you live in this country????????

Golf Courses. Jozzie could easily be marketed as a top golf destination:
1. Great weather all year round
2. Many superb courses
3. Altitude means long drives (it's important to some people)
4. Great restaurants and shopping to enjoy after a long day golfing.

Violent past indeed - I want to see the brochure for that

Capüe Town is the mother city but, JNB? No idea.

As a Durbanite I really enjoy Jozi whenever I am up there. It is the most integrated city, and the nightlife is far superior to any other city, mainly because the people are very friendly. I wouldn't be crazy about living there, but considering how many of the footy fans will be young and amped to party it up, there is loads of stuff to do!

I mean come on, how many of the young football fans are gonna give a toss about museums or the weight of our past. For your average guy it gonna be about the football, great food, nightlife, sunshine, beaches and wildlife, all of which we have in abundance, split pretty evenly between CT, Jozi and Durbs. So why knock any of the cities, they all have a lot to offer. This is supposed to be FUN remember?

Piet, seems some do not appreciate being shown flawed reporting. Makes one wonder about the historical correctness of the rest..... I guess that is the result of rewriting history while the blindness of good people that characterised apartheid, is being perpetuated today.
May God grant opened eyes before we see a repeat of apartheid or worse....

South Africans generally find it a lot easier to enjoy Joburg than do foreigners. For the uninitiated, Joburg is a frightening place with it's electric fences, mega-security, armed security guards, hijacking warning traffic signs and no-go neighbourhoods. And let's be truthful, it is pretty ugly too. Truth is, most European, Asian and North American foreigners are on edge in Cape Town - and they're beside themselves with fear in Joburg. There's lots to do in Joburg, but only if you're not too scared to leave your Sandton hotel.

@ Craig W, we do have a crime brochure in Joburg it's The Daily Sun silly!.

What's in CT beside the mountain, naked racism and the sea?????????????

ProudlySA, even as a CapeTonian, most of us cannot even get basic access to these CTN treasures, which still belong in the hands of the priviledged few. They have done very little to share and still live abundantly in the leafy suburbs of Newlands, Tokai, Tamboerskloof, Rondebosch, etc while there are starving citizens on the flats and townships, a mere stone's throw away.
[World Mayor of the year my ass ..... that smacks more of Marie Antoinette story]

Moxster,

I agree with Malema that we should move into the WC (especially CT) in huge numbers, before the racists there start asking for an autonomous province.........they only like their own and you will never know. They are also very race obsessed and inventive, as they were the first to introduce apartheid system in the whole wide world............

Johannesburg is a unique city across the world, a city of opportunities. Visit Jozi 4 a different life experience

@Moxster and Proudly_South African - cry me a river...maybe you are both unskilled lazy wankers, maybe thats why you cant cut it in CT. In my travels to CT I cant say it was any less or more racist than any other SA city.

Maybe if you spent less time writing bullshit, and more time marketing yourselves, hey you may even be able to sell those huge chips on your shoulders for plywood, should at least provide a couple unfortunates with a kitchen table or three.

Here are some more racist idiots you guys can pick on:

http://www.ancyouthleague.org/home/

JHB is in South Africa my fellow citizen, same as Cape Town. You talk about crime; you talk of a holistic South African challenge. Maybe you are scared that the past will fade in the minds of the black people, not now and not in the future. By the way, JHB is buzzing big time…

@ Proudly_South African Proudly_South African:

Cape Town is not a racist city. It is a difficult place for ANYONE, whether black, white, pink or blue to adjust to. I moved down from JHB in 2001 and still battle to understand the local population - yes, they are VERY cliquey and I miss my JHB friends - Capetonians are very fickle and hardly ever keep to arrangements or planned meetings. Now suddenly a few black people feel this too and "Cape Town becomes racist". As a white I feel like an outsider too in CPT. Do I pull the race card? No, I deal with it and make it work.

@ The Moxter: It must really suck to be you. When last did you get into your car and go to the publicly accessible beaches in CPT? Why do you feel you have no access to them? They are all open to the public and easily accessible... in fact, on weekends busloads of your neighbours from the flats arrive to enjoy the beaches. So k@k reasoning there, dude.
And the mountain... are there roadblocks preventing you from accessing it at any point? If you can't afford the cable car fares, climb the damn thing and stop whinging.
Oh and funny - I live in a VERY affluent suburb and my neighbour is black - he somehow manages to enjoy what Cape Town has to offer.... so get over yourself and live a little. Go walk on the beach this weekend or climb Table Mountain, the fresh air will give you a new outlook.

Chris,

How do you expect a black person to market himself in a racist city.....before you even open your mouth you are given racist, menacing looks just because you are black. A racist bigot like you should feel right at home in Cape Town.........

Maybe if stop defending shit like that, CT might actually transform, but what the heck, insults and laager mentality is what your likes know best.........

Apartheid conscripted mercenaries like yourself have put all this huge chips on our shoulders...........and unless you start behaving like decent, sociable and dignified souls SA will never know peace. Social misfits like youself can keep your mountain, black hatred and the sea................

chris, "thats why you cant cut it in CT"
I live and work in CTN, dude. I have first hand experience of your colonialist forefathers and now your supremacist humiliation of everyone who is non-white (the proof thereof is in your comment). This place really is a tale of two cities: the poor and the rich, literally divided by geographical markings, such as roads (eg. JanSmutsDr dividing Pinelands and Langa).
If you had travelled properly in CTN you would have witnessed this great (racial) divide. But no, you clearly did not.
As for your insults, I will not stoop to your level.

It is scary to witness the racism from the black bloggers on these sites. Please would the Canadian authorities have a look at the SA blog sites to see the hatred the likes of The Moxter and "Proudly"_South African spew forth? This Rainbow Nation is so badly tarnished!

Cape Town a racist city - study

October 22 2009 at 07:12AM



By Craig McKune

Cape Town is seen to be hostile to black people, while white people are still being appointed and promoted at rates suggesting "positive discrimination" in their favour, a damning new study has found.

Commissioned by the Employment Equity Programme and conducted by Sabie Surtee and Martin Hall, the report examined 13 Western Cape businesses that together employed about 60 000 people in management positions. It suggested transformation in the Cape was "at best stalled, and perhaps in reverse".

Cape Town, you can keep your mountain

'It's like I have moved 10 or 20 years back'
"In all companies participating in this study, African people are under-represented (in management positions) in comparison to their overall contribution to the South African workforce," the researchers wrote. They found black people to almost always be less successful than white people in moving up their career paths, creating what they called an "ebony ceiling".

Looking at employment equity, the companies were losing ground in junior and middle management levels, and this deteriorating equity situation led black people to favour living and working conditions in Gauteng.



This made it more difficult for Western Cape companies to achieve employment equity.

"Bluntly put, it is difficult to see how the participating companies from sectors such as the retail and financial services sectors, who employ large numbers of skilled people, can survive as national businesses if they continue to increase their reliance on white people who themselves constitute less than 10 percent of the South African population," Surtee and Hall wrote.

The study was based on data from interviews with mainly black employees from companies in a variety of sectors including retail, financial services and petro-chemicals. The focus was on management.

In the five retail companies surveyed, 65 percent of top and senior management appointments or promotions went to whites in 2008, but only 10 percent went to black people. At junior management level, 27 percent of the opportunities went to white people and 36 percent to black. Similar patterns were found in the other sectors.

In employee interviews, the researchers found "a broad consensus that Cape Town is hostile to African people" particularly when compared to Johannesburg.

"It's like I have moved 10 or 20 years back," one of the employees said. "Joburg is like so far and Cape Town is so very backward. What I always ask myself, where do the black people work in the Western Cape? I don't see them. You walk in the malls, you walk in the store. It's either coloured or white people. Where are the black people? How do they pay their bills, what are they eating?".

Surtee and Hall reported "marked antagonism" toward coloured employees. "Rather than finding common cause with those who were also victims of discrimination ... many African people interviewed feel that coloured people are their competitors by virtue of race."

Cape Town was "isolating" to those without family or established networks, employees said.

"I would like to hang out with more Capetonians, but they are funny characters. They live in an environment that is peaceful that allows you to be on your own ... It's just Table Mountain and the sea. Joburg has ubuntu," said one.

The situation was worse for black women, the researchers said. "African women are always doubly disadvantaged, having to contend with both race and gender discrimination in their career tracks."

According to Guy Lundy, chief executive of the business think-tank Accelerate Cape Town: "Cape Town has a perception problem. People think it's slow and not good for furthering their careers. It's across race groups, but it's exacerbated if you're black and you're not going anywhere."

Martin Pike, chief of operations at the executive recruitment firm Odgers and Berndtson, said it was difficult to convince black professionals to take up and keep positions in Cape Town: "The main issue is the perception that it's not black-friendly."

craig.mckune@inl.co.za

Proudly 'racist' South African:

Stop whining!! Day after day you post your temper tantrums on these forums. South Africa got rid of apartheid...now it looks like we need to get rid of a newer form: black racism. We've experienced 15 years of freedom in this country and you still waste your breathe throwing one apartheid affiliated complaint after another.

Do something with your life!! Any person who actually had something worth while going on in his life wouldnt waste their time writing such dribble!!

Go drive a taxi or something..act out your own words and contribute positively to this country. Instead of pulling out the dam race card every time you feel sorry for your boring mediocre life!!!

Will CPT, how do you assume that everyone in CTN owns a car ?
When these 'neighbours' of mine come in their busloads (which takes a huge amount of resources to organise) to "your" beaches, who is the first to complain about the overcrowding and pollution ? You'd be more than happy if these busloads were banned, so you are only fooling yourself there.
Busloads do not count for easy access, boet. That is only done on special occasions.
Also, if we could at least get to the cable car, in a wink, that would be a different matter. But no, your manne shipped us out to the flats and the townships, to be hidden away so as not to embarrass y'all. Now we have no easy access to the place that was our homes before.

I have no problem living in Cape Town.
I only have a problem with the colonialists, like yourself, who live off their ill-gotten gains, on property you have stolen that does not belong to you.

daneel Davis, funny you mention 15 years of freedom when the majority of this country is imprisoned in extreme poverty.
Funny how it will take years and years to right the wrongs that were done to our people. We will not forgive nor forget.
We will remind your lot time and again.

@The Moxster:

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something about your situation. Your president had humble beginnings and look at him now - if he could do it so could we all.
And I don't mind the busloads at all - nor did I stake a claim to any of the beaches, so they certainly are not "mine" as you say.

Bottom line: I'm white and I find Cape Town an unfriendly place. I know PLENTY of white people who've moved back to JHB as they hate Cape Town and the cliques. Corporate politics and backstabbing is more evident here than experienced in JHB.

No matter what ANYONE says, you just want to pull the race card so dude, good luck to you.
Oh and there's public transport too, very cheap. Use it and go take that walk on the beach anyway. It'll do you the world of good.

Daneel Davids,

Your rantings do not scare me...........for as long as your likes cannot behave like decent, sociable and dignified human beings we will continue to expose your hypocrisy and your unrepentant bullshit!!!!!!!

I am sharing my opinions and if they make you angry I have more opinions........your likes are an intolerant bunch who think your views should be taken as the gospel thruth. You should advise your kinsman to stick to the topic and stop tackling people. If they do (because besides hating other races, that's what they know best) maybe we can debate issues in a mature manner.

....until then you can go to hell for all I care!!!!!!!!!!!! or better still go play with your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will CPT, I do not speak for myself (that is unimportant, something that you would not understand), but for the bulk of our nation who have been done in by your lot. It's going to take much more than 15yrs to fix what you have phucked up.

@The Moxster:

I've phucked nothing up. I'm part of the generation that's trying to build forth on the New South Africa, just a pity the likes of you are solidly stuck in the past and content to hurl abuse and racist hate speech about.

No no Proudly... say what you really mean. Let go your anger. It's not worth it.

Proudly_South African: Being biast, you totally fail at grasping the amount of racism towards white people. Every single day.

70% of my daily anti-white racism, comes from you actually.

Unfortunately, its a never ending cycle.

You hate me, therefore I hate you. The one side wants the other side to come to the party, but nobody wants to walk all the way to the other side of the dance floor. Like I say, we have to meet each other halfway (On the dance floor) before we can tango.

Moxter: if you think that anyone who has a decent education(which I seriously doubt you have)will follow that grade 1 reasoning of yours, then your more stupid than I thought. Just because Comrade Malema goes unpunished for his uneducated rantings doesn't mean that it'll be the accepted norm in South Africa. Inevitably one day the ANC will be forced to attract more than the uneducated mass..then people like you and "PROUDLY RACIST' will have to shut up and leave the debating to people who can look past race and have the capacity to appreciate what is good for South Africa.

I hope you realize that there is a new generation of white people, who had absolutely nothing to do with apartheid!! Grow up, use the few brain cells you have, and actively do something to help the impoverished. Rather than to sit on your obnoxious ass and hurl all your pathetic complaints about your poor race on this forum!!

@moxster and Proudly South African

Your comebacks were terrible.. I am from Durban Proudly, so you didn't even bother reading my post before you shot your mouth off. Moxster I saw the racial divide in CT, its pretty clear, as it is everywhere in SA. Whats your point? You can carry on pissing and moaning about it for sure, but it isn't going to get you much respect. As with a lot of people, I found most capetonians cliquey, but I didn't start shouting about race. Why are you guys so obsessed with racism? And for the record, the more you tell people they are racists for disagreeing with your opinions, the less weight they hold. Had any luck flogging the plywood yet?

@Moxster and Proudly

and my last word on this, having thought about it, instead of doing the same as Proudly in shooting my mouth off, if you are cutting it Moxster what are you complaining about? I cant apply for half the jobs I want due to AA, so get on with it man.

I also find it extremely interesting that CT has suddenly been touted as a "racist" city in an iafrica article, and by various bloggers and posters, since the DA took control. Criticism which was notable by its absence not long ago. Peoples atittudes didn't change overnight. Only the ruling provincial party did. The ANC really will stoop to any level hey, and you guys are complicit in it. The sudden accusations of racism against CT are transparent and completely undemocratic, in fact contrary to all ideals and principles of the 1994 ANC. My how the mighty have fallen.

Hi,

Yes, South Africa has had a hard past and it was not right for white people to discriminate against black people. Now that Appartheid has been "abolished", is "Affirmative Action" not racist?
I guess we have to look at one another as individuals and not as black or white people - or at least it shouldn't factor into it. It isn't really smart treating someone with bias because of what their ancestors/great grandfathers etc. did - It doesn't make sense blaming the current generation for what happened. Looking back at the past and using the old "he did this, they did this, the blacks did this and the whites did this" is a load of rubbish and has no bearing on a nation trying to improve itself.
Yes, there are still racial devides but using these devides and applying this mentality to the current issues in SA seems flawed.
We should be looking at people as people and not in terms of crede or race ie. "How are we going to get these poor people out of these townships and solve this problem?" instead of "How are we going to get these poor black/white people out of these townships?"
There are a lot of people who are in dire situations through no fault of their own but we should not play the blame game as this acctually hinders our progress towards unity as a nation.
People are people.