China's Africa goals more than just natural resources

You forgot to mention China's sale of arms to Mugabe, and their support of the genocide in Sudan -- China has repeatedly used its presence on the UN Human Rights Council to block discussion on Darfur. Acc to UN Watch, a human rights organisation that monitors the UN Human Rights Council, China is "one of the worst rights abusers in the world." This hardly spells good fortune for Africa, does it? China is using its influence in Africa for its own wealth - material resources to feed a burgeoning population. It cares nothing about Africa's environment --- China is directly implicated in the increase in wildlife poaching -- nor her people, which the continent will find out to its peril --- only, I'm afraid, too late. Has the M&G suddenly become a mouthpiece for Beijing? Shame on you.

Oh - and remind me to move my money out of Standard Bank .... I think Nedbank, who has at least shown some backbone in the ASA saga, will be a good place.

And soon China will also be accused of COLONISIMN ….?

China's approach to investing in Africa is way preferable to the wests, who have been and are more than ready to terrorize a nation, kill, plunder and install a "friendly" dictator kept in power at the barrel of a gun.

At least China builds other infrastructure unrelated to it's investments, like roads, bridges, schools and hospitals and transfers technology and knowledge.

The DRC is a classic example where the country is being stripped of it's coltan (used in computer and other communications devices microchips, like cell phones) by US, Israeli and European "interests". These plunderers feel nothing for the death and destruction they leave in their wake. Other examples are Sudan, Tanzania and Mauritania.

The less Africa has to do with the west, and particularly the US of A, the better!

Fraid so Sipho - they don't integrate with others - merely take what they want giving back as little as possible and then they scapper! I've watched them in Africa for 50 years and nothing changes. Great actors tho and can twist foolish African leaders round their little fingers - don't do too badly in the USA either.
They are imperialists - colonising Africa would be too costly and they prefer people who work for nothing, expect nothing and don't complain too much. In Africa the expectation is 'do nothing, expect lots and constantly out on strike" - not good bedfellows then. But for vetos at the UN or possibly cannon fodder in a world war - then Africa is well resourced.

Ella Hume your prejudice is sticking out under your skirt.

Billy Hill - if you have nothing intelligent or constructive to say, then say nothing at all. What "prejudice" exactly are you talking about? Or are you someone who just doesn't like the facts? Have you heard of the Genocide in the Sudan that China has fostered? Heard of Tibet and Burma, where China has just MURDERED several Tibetan activists? Or are you partial to murder and genocide just as long as it's the guys you support who are doing the killing?

talking of facts, Western imperialist countries DID build roads, schools, hospitals, etc in the countries they colonised. This is not a justification - but a rebuttal. And btw WHAT hospitals have the Chinese built in any African country? Your ignorance and stupidity are sticking out a mile long ....

Ella Hume, do you know anything about the record of human rights abuses of the US of A, in South East Asia where in Cambodia they slaughtered more than 2 million people in the largest scale aerial bombings any nation has endured?

Do you know anything about US atrocities in Haiti, Argentina, Honduras and at least another 20 Latin American countries?

Do you know anything about the effects of the illegal US invasion and occupation of Iraq on it's people?

You are probably well aware of the effects of US lead regime change around the world, but choose to ignore it?

Your first comment clearly indicated prejudice against the Chinese, so whats with asking 'What "prejudice" exactly are you talking about?'

If anyone displays deep ignorance of world affairs its you, you brainwashed bimbo!

Was it not Lenin who said 'you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs' in reference to the hunreds of thousands of liquidations that occurred under communist regnum imperium by the NKVD or the Cheka secret police?
The Chinese ideology mirrors this, it has no human right concerns, people disappear all the time, it degrades environments to the point where severe mutations have been reported in animal and human life in certain areas of China, and it is well known that the only way China can compete with the west and undercut Africa's global competitiveness is if it reduces its concern for the environment and cuts back on wages.
Thinking that the Chinese are friends of Africa is like saying that Jews and Muslims get along in Gaza.
Everyone who comes to Africa cannot get in the door unless there is something to show the people. If the people of Africa are foolish enough to be bribed under the behest of their venal leaders and seduced by the promise of a material trinket that their governments should rightfully be providing then we deserve to be recolonised. This time it is by people who have less scruples than the west, if that is possible, and will leave us carrying a sack of corruption, poor governance and under-educated citizens. Then again, judging from Billy Hill's comments, we are already battling with undereducated citizens who read Lenin's 'What is to be done' and the Ku Klux Klan's guide for spreading racial hate and ideological fear, and then consider themselves illuminated geniuses.

Justin Time, "undereducated", "Klu Klux Klan" "spreading racial hate and ideological fear" and "consider themselves geniuses" are terms equally as easily applied to you.

Clearly you don't and cannot see beyond anything the main stream media shoves in your face.

Yes, and both these nations are happily, plundering, recources, natural, and other wise, while putting little in and promoting poor development, other wise it would cost them too much. On the African continent. To be honest, how much cross polination beyond hug multi nationals have there really been in the other direction? Yes, both china and us, are guilty of horendouse human rights abuses. To be honest, i feel the pludering must stop. Africa needs to stand on it own two feet. Or we will NEVER move out of out poverty mentality, with terible dictators and will NEVER stop expeting more weathy countries to bail us out. while our people starve.

Billy Hill - hmm - no one's called me a "bimbo" in quite some time. I'll take it as a compliment.
You remind me of a dog chasing its own tail -- you go on this whole rant about the USA, whereas I did not mention one single word in support of American colonialism, now did I? You are so up your own behind that you tilt your imaginary sword at only perceived enemies. Your response would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

A word of advice: before you attack someone's arguments or position, TAKE 2 SECONDS ACTUALLY TO READ WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT?? I fail to see how the atrocities committed by America, etc, in any justify the current atrocities committed by China.

Take a lesson in logic, kiddo --

@ Billy Hill on November 2, 2009, 11:01 am

No ways did the USA's illegal bombing of Cambodia kill 2 million people- max. was 600000. Get your facts right before spouting crap.

@ Billy Hill on November 2, 2009, 11:01 am

The 2mill you mention is the figure generally given for the autogenocide of Cambodia, resulting from the ridiculous Kmer Rouge communist regime of Pol Pot.

Most powerful countries before rose to power by spilling blood or causing civil wars so as to get minerals for free.
China is negotiating and paying for it.

Your wikipedia figure of 600000 (provided by the Online History of Ohio, with no indication of the source of that number), makes it a whole lot more OK doesn't it Faith?

Perhaps that figure of the immediate bombings is accurate but together with Pol Pot and over the 3 year period the US bombed cambodia in support of Pol Pot, the numbers I will continue to rely on are that in excess of 2 million were killed in Cambodia.

Some historians, for anyone who cares, provide figures of more than 100 million people killed as a result of US military "interventions", world wide, excluding the two world wars.

A great humanitarian nation huh, which will murder, lie, cheat and steal whatever it wants anywhere in the world, while China is of course mindlessly demonized as is any nation that doesn't allow the US a free rein in pillaging it's resources.

By the way, you should read what you said..."get your FACTS right before sprouting CRAP". The words facts and crap being interchangeable in your little mind hey Faithie? LMAO

Exactly mj sun!

Ella, you say that you "did not mention one single word in support of American colonialism", yet earlier you state "Western imperialist countries DID build roads"
Last time I checked the US was part of the west or is it different on your planet ?

Faith, how totally pathetic of you to mention something as detached as "max. was 600000" as if you were referring to flies instead of human beings. You should really be proud of yourself.

At least China, who has made no bones about it, is investing in Africa in a most humane way. It has not done so by using it's secret service to clandestinely instigate civil wars in a country, with (rich natural) potential, in order to destabilise it and then "rescue" it, so as to be the hero. China is quite happy to utilise Africa's vast capabilities, and in so doing, helping it's (Africa's) inhabitants. Even if China benefits from it economically, so does Africa. That is more than what can be said of the west, which has a very bad history in Africa.

Funny these ANC bunch; you despise colonialism, but will allow china to colonise???

‘The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed ‘ Steven Biko

@Billy Hill on November 2, 2009, 3:12 pm

"Perhaps that figure of the immediate bombings is accurate but together with Pol Pot and over the 3 year period the US bombed cambodia in support of Pol Pot, the numbers I will continue to rely on are that IN EXCESS OF 2 MILLION WERE KILLED IN CAMBODIA."

Your references, please, Billy Hill?
You contradict yourself-proves your statements are unreliable.

I can quote you from historian Niall Ferguson's "The War of the World" ("In all, between 1.5 and 2 million people died as a result of execution, maltreatment or starvation, out of a population of only seven million".)This figure does not include those killed by the illegal bombing of the US; I can quote you historian William Shawcross, from his classic book "Sideshow" that describes the whole bombing atrocity, or from his book "Deliver us from Evil";I can quote you verbatim reports from people I have spoken to in Cambodia (on more than one visit), but I doubt that you will take any note of this, you have already made up your mind and no amount of "facts" will change it. Waste of time debating with a bigot.

moloko, please share with us where in Africa, has China colonised ?
What are you smoking in your pipe today ?
China has not overpowered one African nation versus so many by the west.

Well said Moloko Moloko.
China is, of course, not alone in the scramble for Africa or indeed also in other parts of the world. The phenominum is leading up eventually to dominance in the global village and the Chinese culture of discipline gives a head start at this point.
To the Editor, M&G. Does anyone on your staff read posts on this site? If so, how is the input used?

It would be foolish to fixate on China's "imperialism" since China is simply flush with cash and doing what is has to do to fuel its economic growth by repleting its rapidly dwindling natural resources. Rather than Billy Hill's rabid anti-Americanism or others who spout rhetoric about past atrocities or speculate about the intentions of these countries, a better perspective may be to look these countries in our South African context to see which of the two:
1. Played a greater role in our struggle for liberation?
2. Do we culturally identify with, language, music, human rights etc.?
3. Are grappling with similar societal problems as us, racism, violence etc?
4. Enables corruption - Africa's biggest problem?
5. Conducts business in a reciprocative manner - fair trade.
etc.

According to the dictionary (not the Pedi one) china has already colonised Africa.

Colonialism - the exploitation by a stronger country of weaker one; the use of the weaker country's resources to strengthen and enrich the stronger country.

Mox, i wont entertain your rediculous request for public information. Type 'China' and 'Africa' in your search engine and off you go. Only problem is you need to interpret what you read.... might be a bit hard for you!

LMAO at Fannie Botha. She goes on to quote figures similar to mine. Well at least she's been doing some googling and her eyes are opened to the behavior of the US of A. Well done Fannie.

Well said The Moxter, it's good to see others here with their heads screwed on the right way.

For those who are unaware of it, it was only July last year (2008) that Nobel Peace Prize winner President Mandela, was taken off the US of A's list of terrorists.

Fannie, google it!

As formerly one of this much maligned breed, I claim that there is colonialism and colonialism with Belgium (vis a vis the Congo) and British at the other extreme. The British Empire developed from a simple wish to trade.

The word "exploitation" suggests selfish or unfair advantage of a person or situation and was favoured by politicians seeking to gain power. The word has a kinder connotation that, in my view, applied to the British, who mostly did more good than harm.

@Billy Hill

What are you smoking?
The US did not bomb Cambodia "in support of Pol Pot". Such inaccurate statements are ridiculous, and you have no credibility. You are the one who "displays deep ignorance of world affairs".

My eyes were opened to the behaviour of the US in Cambodia many years ago. This led me to travel through the country a few times. (have you done this?) meeting and talking to people. I have books by seasoned journos such as Sydney Schanberg, Jon Swain, John Pilger and Nayan Chanda, and many others who lived through the disaster of Cambodia. Go play in the traffic now, Billy Goat.

@ moloko, yes Steve was right when he said ‘The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed ‘ -and boy oh boy the oppressors messed up a lot of African minds to the extent that they can no longer differentiate between a coloniser and an investor!

China plays fair and will not involve itself in internal squabbles. There is zero justfication to blame China when the Sudanese decide to mix doing business (with China) and butchering each other (could be there is not much profit to go round hence the senseless killing and evictions!).

Faith, Faith, Faith. Without intending to I'm sure, you've supported the gist of every single thing I had to say about Cambodia.

Anyway I have a good laugh at and quite enjoy your snark :-)

Firstly Africa is being "grazed" by it's own leaders. Any multi-national that wishes to operate here needs to pay off the boys at the top. Never mind about the occasional sop thrown in to appease the peasantry like a road or school or clinic.

Secondly the Chinese, in my experience, are perfectly happy to pay any inducement as long is it doesn't come out of it's own pocket, they play a zero sum game. They get to that sum by not paying local taxes, not paying local labour adequately, not giving training and ignoring safety requirements and by keeping capital investment to a minimum. They get away with all this by paying off the boys in charge.

If China succeeds in it's quest to be the economic overlord in Africa then well and good, their strategy is more appropriate than that of the democracies. However nobody should try and pretend that this outcome will be a good one for African people for the simple reason that democracy and human rights are not a requirement of the Chinese when doing business here.

If the Western democracies are economically no better as claimed by some of you here, which I disagree with completely, they are at least trying to encourage democracy and a culture of human rights here which is surely better than not doing so.

China thrives in the absence of democracy and the presence of corruption and totalitarianism and will encourage these things at the expense of the ordinary African people. The beneficiaries will be the political elite of Africa and , of course, China.

At the moment, China and the US, both exploit the exact same amount of resources out of Africa.

http://images.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/dead-heat.gif

@ Billy Hill on November 2, 2009, 6:39 pm

Must be that taxi that hit your goathead.

I support only the fact that the US illegally bombed Cambodia for 3 years, but certainly did NOT support your stated death toll from that event, nor that the US bombing was in support of Pol Pot-I pointed out that what you said was inaccurate.

Go back in the traffic, now, Billy, there's good chap.

Animal Farm-1209 knows that most liberation movements in Africa were supported by the Chinese. Animal Farm-1209 knows that USA has from the very onset supported anything that caused wars, painful destruction and exploitation of Africa.

Ella’s original posting was correct and flawless, we must not be blinded by the history we have with the Red-China. She is correct in relation to the topic at hand, in case some of us in this M&G farm have missed it, we are talking Africa and China, and so Animal farm-1209 does not know how USA gets into the picture.

Animal farm-1209 is heart-broken that our African leaders are selling-out the continent to Red-China for peanuts, we must qualify it stale peanuts. Animal Farm-1209 as a socialist country is schooled in International Management, which encompasses such fancy concepts as Foreign Direct Investment.

Animal Farm-1209 does not dispute that our beautiful Africa is involved in international trade with Red-China, its peaceful trade nogal. Animal farm-1209 is under no illusion about the corruption ravaging our beautiful continent, lack of political leadership with a vision, real astute African Statesmen who are only second to the devil, etc.

On world affairs the former President Thabo Mbeki was unrivaled in Africa and by the way things are going no-one will come near his mark in 50 years but it must be noted that Animal Farm-1209 saw Mr. Mbeki as just an average statesman according to Animal farm-1209 standards. This shows how far our leadership is lagging behind on world stage.

Billy Hill, Dread Dread6, The Moxster and you MJ Sun, Animal farm-1209 has a lump in its throat if learned guys like you can’t see the daylight comradely plunder of our mineral resources, then the men on African streets cannot be blamed for not voting wisely.

Africa has been liberated through the sweat and blood of our people, Black People; we should not give away the little gains we have achieved in a struggle where our martyrs paid so heavily to realize.

Animal farm-1209 would like to make this clarion call that all Africans of all shades to jealously guard against the plunder of Africa’s resources, we owe this to our martyrs and future generations.

Animal farm-1209 is looking forward to an Africa that is completely liberated, an Africa that engages with anyone as an equal, an Africa that does not go to any investor with a cap in hand begging for investment and kick-backs.

FORWARD TO THE UNITED STATES OF AFRICA!!

I suppose then that we all have a lot to learn from each other.
Lets hope we do not all bugger our world up.Its the only one we
have.

Certainly, we do have much to learn but the issues at hand are ones of sovereignty, clean governance, human rights, a close connection/relationship between leaders and the governed, environmental management and justice. I fail to see how situational ethics in any of its forms encourages any of these.
I have a deep distrust of anyone who bears gifts and if one party does not have these concepts in mind as an end, the relationship is always one of dependency and subservience.
I do not kow tow to Americans or the former USSR in any of its modernist disguises. In my view, these are two nations God should not have established under any conception of right or justice. But in the end the common power determines the content of justice. If we bleed for oil and gold, then the justice in it is who derives the benefit. If it is a rentier state or a party apparatchik turned capitalist, then justice has not been done in any citizen's language.

Nobody should take Billy Hill too seriously. I'm guessing he borrowed his name from the American traitor instead of the British gangster. Either way, I'd like to wish him all the best on this 20th anniversary on the fall of the Berlin Wall and remind him that he's supposed to be extinct