Mantashe calls for ideas on nationalisation of mines

Malema will put those ideas on your desk first thing tomorrow morning.............

This is the man who once said the nationalisation of mines was not in the ANC’s agenda in response to the ANCYL Pres… Yet another prime example how serious we should take the pronouncements of the ANCYL.

What's the Pope got to do with it?

To quote Zuma: The mines will remain UNnationlised until Jesus rises

Proudly_South African: Malema might be in trouble, for speeding, verbally assaulting officers, and, driving with an illegal blue light.

As for juju and nationalisation, I actually dont believe he has put any more thought into the idea, except saying that we need to nationalise the mines.

My suggestion is, give juju one mine, and lets see how well it performs.

So bad.You copied and pasted City Police unit and now?
Scorpions also,and now what?

Please do not mess up with our culture.
Malema is no leader as Zuma hopes so.He is a man fighting fire with fire and doesn't think things thoroughly.He was good to confuse people for political mobilisation and in that time it was when people used their emotions more than using their thinking.

Look at what he did in Semenya's case and now he is silent.

How does the mines contribute to poor South Africans? It's called tax. And state run companies are notoriously ineffective all over the world. They often operate at a loss, and consequently they do not generate revenue that can help the poor. Instead, they become a burden, sucking bailout money out of the government and the people, much like SAA, which should be privatised so that it can generate money, pay tax, and thus help to lift our people from poverty.

concrete idea number 1: Stay as far away from the mines as you can possibly can.
2. Government can't manage ESKOM how the hell are they to manage a mine.

Here's a concrete idea. Find some nationalised mines that work efficiently, figure out how they tick and ask yourself honestly whether such a thing could work here. The closest I can think of is Codelco and even that doesn't achieve what the Left wants

"mining companies do not plough enough back into the communities they work in"

While nationalisation is not the answer, this certainly rings true - De Beers being the richest and the main culprit

Hi
In Nationalisation the state would but 60% of an existing mining house and this would lead to monies leaving our country and would be a mess
Why doesn't the state approach the mining houses and if new projects can be developed and create jobs-why not invest...this way the mining company grows-jobs are created-and the state gets a percentage of a larger mining house
This could be called state involved partnership and would be positive...it would be a win-win-win not a dead loss causing capital outflow with the increased costs making us all poorer
cheers

Is Big J going to nationalise the mines Himself, or is He going to turn them into Bakeries and Fish Farms. What is His position on the railways? Might we become shareholders in that before the Day of Judgement, and would we want to?

Mantashe are you not the man who stated in a debate last year before the election:
***
“We (the ANC) are VICTOMS of our OWN SUCCESSES”

Bring them on… bring them on…
watch the RAND...

Nationalising the mines and banks is unambiguous and utterly EXPLICIT in the Freedom Charter. What is there that still needs to be "debated"?

I have some ideas. Namely trying to se if our current system works ok first.

If nobody steals any money, or skims off the surface, do we have enough income right now to address the woes of the disadvantaged? Finance minister already pointed out R27B missing due to idiocy, and there's probably double that missing in straight theft. If that money could be actually used for the poor, we may find that the current policies are working.

Allowing the thieves to own the whole cookie jar is madness. The only thing keeping this country afloat right now is the private sector. It's where competancy lives.

Don't

There's enough money to pay for over million-Rand plus top-range 750i BMWs for each, any and every cabinet minister and high court judge, so cash -- or the lack thereof -- is clearly not the problem.

@Jon Low on November 6, 2009, 2:12 am
"What is there that still needs to be "debated"?"

..Is the Freedom Charter cast in concrete?
.. Is it still relevant 50 years on, after the ideology that it was based on has proved a complete failure?

Good point Faith. @ Jon Low: The people do already own the mines tecnically. South Africa belongs to those who live in it, therefore the mines do to. Currently they have perfectly good managers, who offer lots in the way of taxes to the people. How the government uses the taxes should be our primary concern.

Privatise the railways instead!

Another point for debate would be to establish in those countries (so often quoted) where nationalisation of mines has been implemented, whether the LOCAL COMMUNITIES have in fact benefited from nationalisation, and if so, how, and by how much, over what period. Is "benefiting the local communities" the real objective, or only an emotional/political excuse to get access to more money to squander on parties and bling?

Mantashe clearly feels free to deal the death blow to free enterprise and all non-Chinese investment in SA. Pravin Gordhan has delivered his first and last non-Soviet budget, and Trevor Manuel's economic functions have been transferred to a politburo apparatchik. Zimbabwe,here wecome.

methinks it's the parties and bling!

Mantashe calls for ideas on nationalisation of mines - Mantashe
Malema presses call for nationalisation of mines - Malema
'No immediate plans to nationalise mines' - Motlante
ANC rejects call to nationalise mines - ANC
Nationalising mines is not a government priority – Zuma

WTF does the ANC want? They are clueless. Who controls them, who is the brains, who is the decision makers, who is the dicks and who is the liars?

What a unclear/ goalless organisation.

Nationalising the mines and the whole Azanian economy is long overdue. It is understandable that the government first tried to get the settlers to voluntarily release the wealth of this country, but this approach has clearly not worked. If nationalising the mines is going to turn this country into a Zimbabwe, I think the government should consider who is benefiting now that this country is England. I will be very gobsmacked if this comment gets through.

As stated before, as soon as Julius Malema makes the statement you can take it as fact. The ANC is going to nationalise everything they can, and their invite to comment is a smokescreen. They have their agenda and nothing is going to stop it. Even the level headed vice president has changed his spots. On ETV this am he stated that the poor were not complaining about the excessive car purchases, only the privilaged were, that reference to whites again. Of course the interviewer failed to mention that the poor are not consulted or given publicity of their views. They are also, like Julius Malema, unsophisticated and uneducated.

Communities next to mines?

Well Gwede and the ANC, please explain the expropriation of the mineral wealth by the government?

Previously the mineral rights were privately owned and the mining company would pay royalties to the owners. If the mines had been erected on a communities land, why were the mineral right snot transferred to the community. They would be rolling in cash by now.

But no! The ANC nationalised mineral rights didn't it? So how many Rands made their way into these communities as a direct benefit?

None. Nothing. Ziltch.

What will the difference now be if the running of the mines is itself nationalized?

All the cash will still go to the Treasury where it will be controlled by... the ANC. Still nothing happening for these communities.

Those who support nationalization are either in the ANC and will make billions or believe that as "the people will own the means of production" through their votes there will be any benefit to the man in the street.

Again, the ANC is all about eating the pie itself instead of growing it to feed the masses.

The goverment is falling to manage the municipality what about a big mining company.. The mines must remain unnationalised so that everyone can get opportunity to work in those mines because once it is nationalised only members of the rulling party will work there. We have witnessed that with municipality even if you have a qualification it means nothing.

Gwede Mantashe said: "That challenge stands and we are not going to go to the Pope and just pledge a hollow support for the nationalisation of the mines." –read it again!

From this and other stuff he said it is most clear that the man is not playing with a full deck. And he is by no means the only one.

And this is the calibre of leaders we have, these mentally challenged party bosses decide if we’ll eat or starve in the future?

Yeah nationalise by all means; thank you for the warning. And all who can: make sure that your passports are in order, Zimbobwe will be faster here than anybody held for possible.

To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher:

The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money

i agree wit moloko clearly there is no clear cut manner in which the ANC is operatin save 4 benefitin themselves...who realy is goin 2 benefit afta this nationalisation teks in2 effect??rememba the same COSATU has bin sellin out on the masses..is ths not a move 2 abate the pple and 2 profiteer themselves...whilst the move is gud 2 a certain extent i wonder if they are doin it 4 a just casue or 2 adress individual interests

Zoo Keeper, as true as that quote is - no one will listen! We have gone from an educated president and some sidekicks to a goat herder and his sidekicks - to me that is a downward trend. With Minime and co keeping to door to education shut for the majority and the propoganda machine running - this is how they will stay in power. The majority should understand why it is that a 5 year term of government in office is on the statute books - so that if after 5 years a government has not delivered - change it! Will this ever happen - I doubt it. But in the meantime the majority is led around by the nose, no jobs, no homes, no prospects and because collective farming [the idea] has been trashed - no food.
The mining houses built homes, schools and infrastructure and paid their taxes into state coffers - I can't wait to see audited books and safety records when nationalisation takes place. As with Eskom, Telkom [who by the way has not done such a bad job] SAA and SABC to name a few - down the tubes - Nationalising the banks - they will close virtually overnight. Don't fiddle with something you don't understand would be a good motto and use the right tools for the job would be another!

Mantashe!

Honestly it is ridiculous to allow an individual or group of persons (e.g DB family or Openheimer family) to claim sole onwership of a God-given asset.

So yes mines should be nationalised. On the how to, the smart apporahc is for the state to claim 95% of the profit with the remainder to be distributed among the directors, managers and
workers. Of the 90%, the central government can soak up 30% for across the country projects and the remainder shared equally by all provinces for local use. Now that is being smart.

Had it been that the so-called natural resource owners had invented a method/process/apparatus to produce the 'natural' resource then that would be different!

This is the same with farmland - it is a finite resource and should not be owned by one but by all. What can be owned is the know-how to process the natural resource and the final output. A farmer should not own the farmland but the farming knowledge/skills which when put to good use leads to a good yield and the farmer can comfortably smile all the way to the bank and boast about at every watering hole they visit! No problem.

Jester Julius Malema. It is amazing that the ANCYL provides this service to the public. I guess 36 percent of mining for blacks is fine but thou shalt not have more than 10% of the finance sector. There, even the Chinese beat blacks on their home turf. And Barclays is back on the block courting Manuel's nooi Ramos. Malema waar is djou kop. Follow the money, you fool (fool in the best possible sense of course)...

@dread dread6,
Re: Your Scheme To Nationalise The Mines:

Bravo, well thought out!

One little thing you left out though: where will the many hundreds of billions of rands come from to compensate the shareholders?
I mean they will have to be bought out, won’t they? (A forced buy-out will be unimaginably complicated as well)

Or do you plan to simply take it?

And what investor in his right mind will ever invest a cent in SA then?

Go get a brain, learn how to use it, then come back before you and your lot completely destroy SA.

@Zoo when is eventully?, The ANC is just implementing the freedoom charter, any one who has a problem with that should canvass, i mean realy canvass not attacking anyone or rather try to stop anyone , and win the elections, then they can implement their own crap, untill then, i repeat untill then. they must just shut up, and accept what the rulling party is doing, is that so hard to do?

@Africa 4 Africans,

From a purely “democratic” point of view you are right.
‘Problem is democracy –especially in Afrika- does not work always right.
If the voting majority (the poor, uneducated, dying from AIDS etc.) would know what is good for them, they would never again vote for the ANC thieving power-hungry lot.
But they nevertheless do.

Democracy does not work for the benefit of society in SA, we are free to at least say that.
So do not shoot the messenger –look hard at the problem.
See if we have a point.

I am helluva worried guys and girls. This is a HUGE fcuken problem. The uneducated masses (and we are completely surrounded) will be sold (have already) on that it is a good idea and they, including us, will be in the very deepest of shit. They are too fcuken stupid to see it and we are a non entity in the country. These poor bastards actually think they might be able to get something out of this nationalization. It has yet to dawn on them that in 15 years of milking the system that there are only a handfull of people that will score, and big, by doing this.

@ twannie henrick - I followed your suggestion to 'go get a brain' but returned with my same brain since the ones on sell were of inferior quality.

My proposed scheme on nationalisation does not threaten the existing shareholders - they will still enjoy a profit. Check the popular Old Mutual demutualisation project and how well it worked out for both existing and new 'shareholder'. The project increased the number of shareholders but current ones were not worse off!

I guess we have to agree that a natural resource must be enjoyed by all citizens equally and there is no justification wy this cannot be the case. No living soul created diamonds, gold, platinum, fertile land but these resources were placed at our disposal by nature. Well if it is a case of someone creatively turning the desert into a farmland then that individual must be allowed to enjoy the benefits alone.

Or if it is a case of some clever chap coming up with a 'diamond' seed like say maize seed then oooppss he has full some claim and no-one should ever dream of nationalisation in this case.

Eish!!

We simply dont have the capacity to transform into a socialist state for now, there will be no momentum if we launch such policies now.