'Shoot the bastards,' Mbalula says of criminals

jesus....is thinking before speaking frowned upon by these fools?
no wonder the twat that shot the poor 3 year old looked unconcerned...

"In the course of any duty the innocent will be victimised." Is the man insane?! How warped is the claim of this fascist lunatic that the ends (i.e. rampant egoism and not wanting to be perceived as a "ball boy") will justify any means. Fikile Mbalula, the only difference between you and a Nazi is that you were born a few decades later.

Since when is an innocent human life seen as collateral damage? I agree shoot the criminals but use some common sense and aim for the criminals, don't just get trigger happy and shoot anything that moves! This guy didn't think what he was saying.

OMG! Is April fools day now celebrated in November. This is unbelievable!

I'll say it again - we need a trained and educated Police force, not a much of trigger happy cowboys who think they are above the law.

This is ludicrous!

So instead of beefing up detective services to be able to actually successfully catch and prosecute a suspect, he wants SAPS to be able to be judge jury and executioner.

I hope the parents of the deceased sue Mbalula in his personal capacity and leave him begging at the traffic lights.

So Shabangu's comments at the funeral of Olga to effect of "We'll all die one day, if its by a police bullet or old age, what's the difference?" are not in isolation.

So the police are being re-militarized Apartheid style; given confidence to shoot suspects in the absence of a threat to themselves or others; given confidence to use their weapons even if that means killing an innocent; inified under one "Force" so no-one guards the guards; and JZ wants to tighten up firearm laws even more.

Censorship laws in the pipeline too.

I smell a police state on the horizon. Seems the ANC brought Stalin with them from exile after all.

This just a bastard talk.

What does this guy really do? We have a Minister, a Commissioner and what is his job really?






No wonder he has time for this nonsense.

Can anyone propose a practicle solution to the delema we sit in, the current laws we have proibit the police using adiquite force for particular situations te result is police dying left right and centre and because of our useless liberal laws the criminals do not pay for their crimes....(We complain about this) and on the other hand if we grant the police the power to use adiquite force we complain about this aswell.....Al i know at this moment more criminals have been killed by police recently than civilians and for the first time i actually have seen the guilty pay the price......it is unfortunit that a todler has been killed but the outcome to all S.A citizens is clear

Is this really happening, are these twats for real. i really dont belive this. This means we should fear the stupid guy's in blue, cause you call them tell them you geting robbed and come guns blazing. They couldnt tell whos the robber or the victim cause as per Mbalula



"In the course of any duty the innocent will be victimised," Mbalula told reporters in Parliament

"In this particular situation where you are caught in combat with criminals, innocent people are going to die,"

does this mean people are just going to die and its okay cause its normal !! this is sick

I understand your point of view Ron - we are all pretty gatvol with crime in this country. I'm concerned about the police playing judge, jury and executioner. And I'm also worried that our dear Deputy Police Minister has so little regard for an innocent live that he would refer to it as collateral damage! What if you were suspected of a crime - should there not be a free and fair legal system to support you, instead of an illiterate policeman with and R4?

The answer for me is in education. I've come across too many policemen who couldn't even take down an affidavit - and I sometimes wondered if they could even write their own names! And these are the people we are entrusting our safety and security to?

Minister, Deputy Minister, Commissioner = the 3 stooges.

I am sick of crime,I've been robbed and hijacked and I am happy that finaally,we have a Minister who feels our pain.

Does anyone remember Thabo Mbeki saying that the concerns about crime was exagerated?I know that Fikile Mbalula and Bheki Cele will turn this country to be safe for our children.

Thanks Vutha!

@Ron Kribb

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with the laws as they stand.

It is absolutley imperative that those we entrust to protect us and hand lethal weapons are strictly controlled and held up to a high standard of behaviour.

The problem is not one of law, its one of adequate training.

But training is a long hard slog as most of our police force will have to go back to the training ground and colleges - at least so they can learn to take down a statement properly.

But all this is not easy to turn into a popularist slogan.

So kill the innocents, kill the children, vote ANC.

Whoever is against the shoot to kill must come up with the right strategy. This bastards are haevily armed you cannot stand in their way. Surely innocent blood will be shed along the way.If I happen to be in the crossfire turf luck... but this will in two years time end and our children will live in a crime free society.

This is a struggle. It's like during the dark days...If you cannot face the heat you know what to do.

Facts and stuff like
'...I know that Fikile Mbalula and Bheki Cele will turn this country to be safe for our children...'

That is the police does not kill your children.

Zoo Keeper on November 12, 2009, 3:08 pm
Plocie at this moment are not allowed to fire uless fired apon....criminals play by other rules shoot to kill and to kill you only need one bullet. Who do you think is going to win

There is no doubt that the authorities (note: not just police) must crack down hard on crime ... sure we all agree with that.

Seems to me though that we are going from one end of the stick (Mbeki = "what crime?") to the other (Fikile = "shoot he bastards) ... neither is acceptable.

This guy's (Fikile) public behaviour is no better than the 'bastards' he's talking about ... not exactly what one would hope for from a person in such a senior position.

As to his declaration that "innocent people will die" and that "In the course of any duty the innocent will be victimised" ... this is such a stupid and irresponsible statement, they should get him out of there while there's still time.

Unfortunately though, the 'culture' set by the ANC doesn't exactly lend itself to creating a civil society ... from the president, through the structures below him (like Fikile) all the way down to antagonist supreme, Juliaaas.

This is the ANC way.

Facts and Seathane. I vehemently disagree with you. Life is sacred and we should take every measure possible to prevent even more blood from running down our streets. Some innocent bystander who is killed in a crossfire is not "turf (tough) luck"! It is a father, a mother, a child, who is killed and not just some anonymous person.

We need ministers to come up with real solutions - more policemen - better trained. Killing everybody who breaks the law is not the answer!

Ramalema: "in two years time end and our children will live in a crime free society"

What are you smoking?

@Concerned Citizen - this shoot to kill is meant for criminals who shoot at the police so if you know you didn't commit crime then you should coperate and prove ur innocence in court

As I have said before, this type of rhetoric is disgusting. The police do not need more firepower. They need more skilled investigators and more forensic capabilities. They need better community liaison professionals and security in the treatment of witnesses. The only solution to crime lies in community involvement, the correct use of science and technology and judicious application of force when necessary.

In numbers there are enough police officers and there is even enough money but neither of these resources are used to anywhere approaching maximum efficiency. Police must cease making themselves the enemy once again and build bridges and trust with communities of law-abiding people.

Go well, little Atlegang. May your family be granted strength.

See how he's tune changes when the innocents turn out to be himself/friends/family or better yet an offspring. There's no collateral like your own. This smacks of hypocritical leaders pretending to be in tune with the people on the ground. This is just a childish way of saying that the police service is not up to the task to protect the innocent (soon we'll be fighting of criminals AND police). Bloody Idiot!

There are the criminals in the street - ok, shoot them and the poor little children too.

Then there are the criminals in government. Now who is going to shoot them? I can certainly live with any coincident collateral damage.

Solution….

1. Get the DEATH sentence back.

2. Give the Police petrol for their on-duty cars (they may not – like I see every day- use these cars for taxi’s and shopping)

3. The police need EDUCATION – service the public with a smile… (Hell you get pay for doing a service – and to PROTECT me ---- not raping me)

4. The Police cannot be above the law.

5. Make a new law --- (EVERYBODY MUST KNOW IT) ---- give us the public the right to DEFEND ourselves in a Hijack or in my OWN home ----- this is ludicrous that we have to sleep in fear ---- should the whole of South Africa ask for VIP Protection??????

6. In China they have 68 types of death sentences - tree felling is one. Why can we not have for RAPE, Housebreakings, hijacks, child pornographic …

7. We want to live in a SAVE country.

@ Ron

You've been listening to JZ who also doesn't have a clue about the law.

Police are allowed to lethal force when their lives or another person's life depends on it and it is the only option available in the circumstances. The law and the case law support it.

There has never been any notion of having to wait until fired upon, or fire a warning shot. The problem is a lack of training for police, pure and simple. Police are not trained adequately to assess a situation properly, nor are they trained in the law properly either.

@Facts and stuff like that

"I know that Fikile Mbalula and Bheki Cele will turn this country to be safe for our children."

It would appear to depend on whether or not your children have metal pipes in their hands or not.

i voted for them , but i dontee with the crap that Mbalula said, i know cause an innocent child died, i have a 3 year old too, i could just imagine if it was her, im very sad about this, coz this idiot called policemen they just shoot for fun and then knowing they will be defended, we need to be cautious about making such statement... sad, sad, sad...

@ Sipho Hu

The death sentence is a non-issue when the police cannot even catch and deliver a prosecutable case in the first place.

I am opposed to the death penalty as I believe the state must never have the power of life or death over its citizens.

I do, however, support the rights of citizens to bear arms (even though I don't own weapons myself) and protect themselves in their own homes.

Maybe we're going to need arms to protect ourselves against the police?

Welcome to the Mbalula world.

I believe that many people when they say criminals must pay mean that if they ought to die it should as a result of a fair trial.
However the deputy minister think otherwise - note the language used by an ANC NEC member, and a cabinet minister. No suprise there as this is the only way Mr Mbalula communicate - hurlling insults. I wonder what was it that Tony Yengeni and company taught him last december. Is this how Xhoza "men" address issues? That looks like a waste of precious time!!!!
May be instead of giving real "molao" Mbalula was supplied with his favourite whisky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mthethwa rein your deputy in!

Since when do deputy ministers get to address the media like this.

Wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't totally clueless to the implications of what this attitude will be.

What happened to the ANC Youth League? Why does it produce idiots?

The father of the three year old and all of the police’s civilian victims should not worry because “one way or another we are all going to die, regardless of whether a cop shoots you or you were ill".

Zoo Keeper our laws have late us down, it does not matter how you want o spin it how many crimminals have raped, killed adn robbed while they are out on bail. This has nothing to do with police take the story of Kelvin Ludidi ha has been implicated to at least 60 cases of violent robberies and he still walking the streets coz of the justice system in this country that let him out. How many times has been out on bail but still he gets caught and he is out again to do as he pleases. As long there is guns around someone is bound to get shot its really unfortunate nthat innocent people are getting shot. Does anyone have the stats for the ammount of innocent people shot by cops in the past year so we can compare with now to see if its really getting out of hand.

The pronouncements by Mbalula are reminiscent of his days at the youth league except that in this case more is at stake, and as such a little bit of wisdom, and thinking is called for.In the youth league you can get away with saying pretty much anything. Perhaps this is one thing someone must bring to the attention of the Deputy Minister. And ask him to stop shooting his mouth. Man!!!

Zoo Keeper on November 12, 2009, 3:45 pm
Go read the laws boet!! Why do you thing the want to change it to "percieved threat".

Zoo Keeper i forgot you say you support civilians in [protecting themselves by shooting criminals but you have a problem with cops doing that..... find that interesting coz at the end of the day a criminal will be shot and thats what Mbalula is saying (just my observation)

It is interesting that most of the black folk in this discussion are all for the cops shooting their kids! Don't you guys realize that the law already allows the cops to use lethal force to defend themselves? The only change that CAN be made to the law is to allow the police to shoot people even when their own lives AREN'T in danger. Do you really want that?

Why should we have a Police Commissioner who doesn't any expertise whatsoever or was never a Policeman? This should be looked at seriously, I am not against the fact that Policemen should protect themselves when on duty but killing a two year old and claiming that was self defense that's is not on.

I mean a two year old cannot even hold a gun straight because it will be too heavy for him/her.

I feel government should do something about this 'Shoot to Kill Statement' because we wont be safe anymore. Instead of protecting us they are killing us wonder!

Clayton

The justice system in this country needs fixing. You ask good questions as to why those people are on bail - what did the prosecutor do at the bail hearing? Did the SAPS provide the prosecutor with evidence of his previous offences or just hand him the current docket? What was given to the magistrate to make his decision. We need to know that before commenting on the ins and outs of a particular case.

But the way to fix it is to train police to investigate and process evidence properly.

The reason we have such a high crime rate is precisely because the police couldn't catch a cold. When everyone is getting away with crime, what's the barrier to entry to the criminal world.

Think about it: If it was known that if you committed a crime you'd face a 80 - 90% chance of being caught AND successfully prosecuted, almost all would think twice.

I say I back civilians protecting themselves because when your back's up against the wall you should have no worries about lashing out at the threat. It is not a support of kangaroo courts or vigilantism. My apologies if I didn't make that distinction properly.

Some people here should stop smoke tea bag's, if the 3yr old 3 f*cking yr old was your kid would still say the crap that you saying. that really makes my blood. nxa!

The hypocracy of this inept government!!! They won't bring back the death penalty (not that I believe in it) but then have a shoot to kill policy. And then the cheek to say that innocent citizens will get caught in the crossfire!!!!!! Shooo, be scared, very very scared!!!!

“It is better to destroy one hundred innocent people than to let one guilty one escape.”

“The courts must not ban terror – to promise that would be deception or self-deception – but must formulate the motives underlying it, legalise it, as a principle, plainly, without any make-believe or embellishment.” Lenin, 1922.

@ Ron

I have read the laws. There nothing a trained person couldn't understand in them as they stand.

Changing to "perceived threat" results in a huge change in meaning. Was the pipe held by a 3-yr old a "perceived threat"?

Is it a perceived threat if a person has a gun on them but it is not drawn, or is held pointing at the ground? this could mean life or death for the person in the sights of the cops.

What if that person is you who has just beaten off a criminal only to be shot by the cops because they perceived you as a threat?

All the cops need is proper training. No change in the law is going to alter that fact.

The ANC is just lazy, trying to legislate away all the problems instead of serving the people and earning their salaries.

i guess the sad thing here is, if you had a competent police force you wouldn't have the spiralling crime that forces this idiotic shoot to kill policy, now you have the same incompetent idiots trusted with shooting 'criminals' in order to bring down crime that they weren't competent enough to handle in the first place..
pretty stupid.

according to reports there was no pipe found...and, even if there was a pipe, how is a toddler holding a pipe considered a threat? how can idiotic twats like this be accepted into the police?

Bruttal force alone will not solve our crime problem, instead we need to beef up the intellegence unit of the police force to make sure that the criminal network is done a fatal blow at its core.
Our so-called leaders need to watch their language, we are not a banana republic led by some despots. Lets do what we have to do with criminals but surely the end should not be used to justify the means. To say to South Africans we are going to get rid of criminals but in the process its inevitable that we are going to kill the innocent citizen is just pure criminal in itself, we are been held to hostage by leaders who do not have the intellect of proper police intelligence. Surely there must be some recourse in our constitution against this kind of speak! Can some bright lawyer come forward please...

If any person other than the perpetrator is killed in a shoot out then the guilty party must be arrested and put on trial for murder; regardless if it is a cop or anyone else for that matter.
Does this man actually have a brain that makes his vocal cords work?
It should also be made an offence to put people with his obvious lack of common sense into any position where they must think; including doing something like driving a car.
What is this country becoming?

This is just plain crazy! If criminals are prepared to use deadly force to steal something, then no amount of fire power or free triggers OR DEATH PENALTY is going to stop them. They will just respond to more militant police with greater militancy themselves then our streets will be the new Afghanistan.

Greater police intelligence through adequate training and tactical crime prevention is the only way the police will contribute effectively to the fight against crime without killing the tax payers who pay their salaries in the process.

Who are these idiots running our country? Do we not have control of what goes on in our own country? Are the concerns of us as citizens not considered? Vote they say, vote. But when faced a choice between mediocrity and idiocy, what good comes from a vote? I'm trying to become despondent here but it's hard.

Mabula surrounds himself with criminals (thieving government officials), so can I shoot those criminals and take him out as collateral damage? Before the taxpayer has to fork out R300.000 per month on his security for a threat, I have no intention of shooting anybody but just pose the question.

The era of Judge Dredd?

I feel desperate for that poor child that got shot and can't imagine what the parents must feel like, but I have to say, the way things are in this country at the moment I also feel like shooting the bastards.

Shoot to kill vs death penalty?

Reading through all the postings, one wonders how many of you write from their mental institution's wards...you all sound very d####nk. Some of you think well trained and educated police would help to solve the problem, others are talking about the toddler.

Those of us who follow news accurately know that it is not the first time that a toddler is mistakenly shot dead by police, it has happened before the new administration. In fact, nobody can raise his hand and confidently tell me that this is the first time since 1994 that such a mistake happens.

And know one can tell me that educated police are more competent than those that are less educated. Remember criminals are not all educated and arresting a criminal is not writing a test or standing in lecture room to teach, it involves a lot of danger.

Yesterday I listened with shock in one of the national radio stations when a criminal called in a phone in programme to air his views about the so called shoot-to-kill policy. He claimed that he has never killed anybody in his life, but he lives by stilling from white people. When asked if he carries a deadly weapon like a gun to scare off his victims he said: 'Yes, I do, but I have never killed anyone and I don't want to". Asked if he can use it if his life is threatened he was on the affirmative. Asked if he would use his gun on a victim if he or she resists during robbery, again he answered affirmatively. Just like all of you who are against this shoot to kill policy, he is someone who lives by terrorrising other people, dispossing them of their belongings on the basis that they are white, phoning a national radio station to express his disagreement to the policy aimed at dealing with doing away with exactly what he is doing and he get support from his potential victims simply because they don't like a person in charge of dealing with crime.

I mean reading all these views it's like I am listening to that criminal saying "I don't agree with the use of deadly force against us".

Can you guys be serious about this! Let the criminals run the country and let's forget we will ever win against them.

C'mon all you ANC supporters! Send your kids out into the streets - maybe with a piece of pipe! Watch justice in action!

Apart from race and status, we should be afraid, be very afraid. Police have assualted innocent people, victimised our old and abused the power they have, give them gun power and leave peaces, not peace. We have illeterate police officials who behave like WWE superstars and now they'll start behaving like Hitler's nazi. The laws havent been passed, but how many innocent lives have been lost? Those who rejoice will be the loudest when their families, hence themselves are confused as "criminals". Becareful, your AUDI might look like the one stolen at Sandton, and your child's play gun might be a real gun. Wait and see if you wont be collateral damage

@Dumisani Mlambo - so we should be afraid exactly. I have directed correspondence on exactly this issue to the President and received illegible response that no one is interested in translating into a legible document.....so much for asking the people to help govern

Kufakubonwa
you don't seem to be connecting the dots here. a well trained educated police force would mean that in a situation that requires force, force will be used, and one hopes, will be used intelligently. regardless of a criminals education (which really has nothing to do with anything ) a cop who is well trained should be in a position to make proper decisions in the heat of the moment.
e.g. a parked car outside a house with an infant in it is usually on the lower end of the risk scale and would warrant a cautious approach. not coming out with guns blazing.
e.g. a person who is running from the cops cause he has been smoking a zol generally doesn't deserve to be shot dead - if zol is a shooting offence now then i imagine the sa population is going to drop dramatically..
As for your example of the phone in crook - shooting to kill without asking questions isn't going to deter this guy - just means that if the cops happen to bumble upon him whilst he is in the midst of robbing someone that he is going to shoot at the cops first cause he knows if he doesn't he is stuffed.
not exactly much of a crime deterrent is it?
This just seems to be a step further in the militarization of the police - call them a force now, use war like language..doesn't bode well at all..
by my count its 5 innocent people that have been shot by the cops since this shoot to kill crap has been ramped up be the politicians..wonder how that will grow in this 'war'

All the sceptics, wait until the bloody criminals kill your family - the you will understand the sentiment behind dealing harshly with criminals...........

We have abnormal crime levels for fuck sake............

It would be bad enough if we were ONLY in danger of getting caught in the cross-fire. But the recent shootings have been to do with the cops mistaking innocents for baddies and shooting AT them, which is not quite the same thing.

My son was illigally arrested because the dumb cop had no communication skills. He had a can of mace emptied in his face. Thank goodness there was no "shoot to kill" policy otherwise it would have been a bullet. All we got in the end was an apology. Cop didn't understand what he was saying. He could have been killed for that "misunderstanding". I have no problem with the police shooting back at criminals but to just shoot with no threat and then claim, afterwards, that a gun was pointed at them. I'm not sure!!!!! That's an easy defence. Trained police would know how to assess a situation and to keep the public from being caught in cross fire.

This is the worst yet! How do you think a toddler is going to shoot you? When does common sense prevail with these cops? I think all of you that support this absurdity should just wait until its one of your family members that are innocent bystanders that is caught in fire and we'll see what you'll have to say then.

PSA - or the police....

"sensationally alarmist"? "Yes. Shoot the bastards. Hard-nut to crack, incorrigible bastards.""That is why police are killed and are dying like flies."

Rob Krin,

Wait until the police shoot your son/daughter or one of your family members. The Deputy Minister is totally irresponsible to make such a statement. The problem with crime in SA is because criminals knows they can get away with it. If criminals know that they will be caught they will not commit crime. Look at most criminals who ae being arrested they are on bail having committed serious crimes. This is where the justice system comes in, why give bail to serial offenders.

I am out of business now because they broke into my business three times and until today no one was apprehended. Police never took finger prints or even interview people who live close to my business.So criminals can see that police are not serious about crime.Crime pays in South Africa, ask the President

Ian mcintosh how may innocent people where killed, beaten, abused by police before the shoot to kill policy? There are so many cases of police brutality before the shoot to kill statements but were not reported on so why the noise now? Someone asked a querstion that if it was your relative who has been shot by police would i support the shoot to kill - would like to ask them how about the families of the police officers who are killed by cirminals daily. We tend to look at the ammount of people that are shot by cops how many cops have been killed by criminals? Lets be fair here this is making a lot of noise because the ANC said it. The cops are not blameless in this situation but i think the blame lies with our justice system that. if we change then i beliove we will see a change in the way things are done. It looks like its os easy for these criminals to get bail, how many times have we read of someone comitting a crime and they where on bail? Many want the death penalty whats the difference with shoot to kill?

Kufakubonwa Yengwayo:

"And know one can tell me that educated police are more competent than those that are less educated."

Sounds like you were involved in writing current policing policy in SA!

So, we must select police based on what? Bravery? Strength? Attitude? Party Affiliation? In one paragraph you have decided that police academies around the world have got it wrong. That there is no training distinction between a meter maid and a detective.

"arresting a criminal is not writing a test or standing in lecture room to teach"

Everywhere in the civilised world a policeman is trained;

- how to find the criminal to arrest ...
- on what grounds (evidence) he can arrest the criminal ...
- how to conduct an arrest effectively (for all concerned) ...
- what procedures to follow during the arrest ...
- what evidence to give the prosecutor for a successful trial ...

That takes extensive training if it's going to be successful!

Taking a bunch of untrained people and giving them the right to shoot to kill is not going to be successful.

So, go read the posts again and try and understand what those, concerned about thoughtless and inflammatory statements, are actually saying here!

Fuck you Mbalula, you stupid, uncircumcised fool, a three year old have been killed by you people and you say such a stupid thing in media. Fuck You!!!! I hope they kill your wife.

Clayton - not disputing that innocents were killed prior to these ill thought statements.
The noise now is because its being sanctioned by the ministers & govt now - saying go out there and shoot the bastards, and if innocents get killed well thats just tough shit (or destiny according to some idiots..) so its going to get worse. you have an ill trained and unmotivated police force being given carte blanche to kill criminals - how many criminals are now going to think of going peacefully when the chances are they'll just be shot? may as well go out shooting. i predict an increase of deaths in both the police and innocent civilians.
its easy for criminals to get bail because of shoddy police work..you can have the best justice system in the world, but with no adequate police to back that up its almost worthless.
the diffs between shoot to kill vs death penalty? seriously? you want an untrained unmotivated unwilling policeman with whatever character faults deciding on the spur of the moment whether you should live or die? seriously?

I have read that the majority cases where a policeman has been killed has been off-duty policeman and woman. The majority have not been killed in the line of duty.

This "dying with their guns in their pockets" is looking like an outright lie.

The police ministry must come clean with exact stats and details of police murders and how this "confusion" has led to a policeman dying with his gun in his pocket. I can recall only one from the newspapers this year. ONE.

Not much of a basis for all this wr talk now is it?

I wonder if JZ can connnect the dots around the protections he relied on as an accused to get off on his corruption trial and the removal of such protections by de facto police judgements.

Under what he is advocating, JZ himself should have been denied bail and left to sing "Umshiniwam" to his fellow inmates.

There is no quick solution to crime. The police and justice systems are in shambles, rotten and corrupt to their core. I dont honestly believe "Shoot To Kill" is the solution at this point. Criminals know that is takes years for the for them to get their days in court and when they do they will most likely get bails. Cases are not properly investigated, there are discrepencicies, and criminals always get free. Police are easily bribed. Proper training of the police workforce is needed, because if you give untrained police power to use deadly force they will shoot 3 year olds. Mr Mbalula, before we amend the constitution make sure that police stations are properly run, police are fully trained to assess situations in which they can "Shoot To Kill".

Oh and Mr Mbalula, if the 3 year old shot was your child, would you still consider it colateral damage?

I wonder if Mbalula or his family member would be the one caught in the crossfire would he have the same sentiments!!!!!!

'In the course of any duty the innocent will be victimised.'

Looorrrrd!!! How did we end up with such irresponsible nincompoops at the helm of 'crime combating'? I can’t wait for the day when some NGO or other similar organization/lobby group took Mbalula, Cele, Mthethwa, and perhaps even Zuma to court, for their blatantly unconstitutional populist utterances.

Go on Mbalula we don't wonder why you were taken to the mountains without your concerned and that meant even life of the innocent people should be lost without us being concern? Poor Mbalula with your barbaric and militaristic tone go on make that noise knowing very well that your life is more safer at our expenses, but the time will come whereby you'll feel the pain of losing people your darely loved. Being popular doesn't really makes you Mr Solution for everything, stop being childish and such arrival symptom in mind will drive you to your political death like you did with others. Moopong sekhukhune

Zoo Keeper are you saying an off duty cop shot trying to stop a criminal is not shot in the line of duty?

Shoot the bastards. Start with corrupt office holders and work your way down.

i would like to say i am appauld by the language & manner these very sensitive cases have been handled.The Minister's PR's could have done a better job as well the deputy himself of communicating himself better.Seems Fikile took the whole mshini wami & Juju's shoot to kill to another level, good for you buddy but i don't agree in this case.we live in a country with overwhelming resources where we have people that are properly educated enough to do extensive research on matters such as these than come up with a better forum & list of options most befitting of the people & situation. We need the entire structures of our judicial system revamped.We need more specialised units, intellegent services, CSI crime scene investigations unit with state of the art equipment to ensure that of security force remain ahead at all times.We can't have trigger happy moron's with guns waving them around & killing innocent people & children then call it colleteral damage.Are you mad?the very intent of imposing such harsh rule is to protect the very people you are now killing.This is worse than the death penalty because atleast then you go to trial, here you dont, the cop decides depending on what mood he's in.I am a father & husband,please don't ever come to my doorstep with my loved one's lifeless body at the hands of idiotic cops playing God, for i too then will shoot to kill.

Bad language will not improve the situation.

I recalla situation, a long time ago and in another place, when policemen were unarmed and children were encouraged, with good reason, to regard them as friends to whom to turn when in need of help. When, extremely rarely, armed force was required, it was provided by the military.

I mention this to illustrate that this desirable division between roles is possible. Yes, we can; given a massive turnaround in attitudes and effective leadership.

Just a thought? Now that these idiots are permitted by law to shoot and kill both criminals and innocent (colateral damage) people, the death sentence needs no longer be discussed! It is back and the police are the executioners! That raises another question - do we actually need lawyers,magistrates or judges?
Surely the police can effectively take their place and then we do not need police ministers anymore either!

I strongly feel that this is not the way to go about it.

As unwelcome as it is, I would far rather have the death penalty reinstated in the country as a means of eliminating these type of criminals from society, than some trigger happy cop killing left, right and center with limited oversight or due process.

At least there would have been a judicial process between being caught and having him/her eliminated if it is found to be the appropriate penalty. It is a more acceptable manner to deal with them, but I agree with the government that we have to deal with the issue of violent crime, but let us not deteriorate into anarchy, criminal or official.

Of course, no policeman must be placed into the firing line without the means of defending his life, or those he/she has a duty to protect, and that is a fine line and it is important that politicians do not create an environment where it becomes a free for all.

Mbalula is a fo*l just like his boss. Currently we are scared of the police more than the criminals.
People who agreed to the rule do not care about anyone as they know their families are safe and so is themselves. Our taxes are being use to pay for their VIP protection. What about us?
Death penalty is much better than shoot to kill, at least there is time to investigate the situation and take proper action unlike acting immediately and killing the wrong person.
Room of error on death penalty is far less than shoot to kill.

Is it so much to expect that the police will at least TRY not to kill innocent bystanders.

Go on - surprise us all - rather than say "innocent people are going to die", say "it is the aim of the police force to not injure 1 civilian in the course of our duties"

This sets the bar for the police force - with this drivel they don't have to think twice.

Hippo: what that has to do with ANC supporters? I bet the mother of Atlegang(which means success in eglish)also voted for the rulling party but that does not mean she wanted the cops to kill her child, we are also sadden and dissapointed by the Mbalula 's commends, coz many innocent peolpe will die this coming festive season due to some arogant cops, you should also be scared coz the minute they rob your house then you will call the cops,they will come shooting from the gate what about you kidz then? huh? scared now?

Clayton

Were all of them shot like that? I don't think so.

The justifications being rambled out by the ANC smacks of the same terror tactics the Nats used to use.

So much for liberation then

When we are not allowed to protect ourselves, as this contravenes the criminals Constitutional Rights, and the police consider us 'collateral damage', who exactly is there to Protect and Serve? Also, I cannot for the life of me figure out how and why a 3 year old posed a threat? Even if he had a gun, couldn't the police have issued some kind of warning shot, or at worst tried to disarm the little guy before gunning him down?

The policeman saw a 'shiney metal pipe' assumed it was a gun, what a pity his brain power was so challenged that he was unable to see how many people were in that car and what was attached to the pipe. If they don't have the brain power to recognise a small child alone in a car - please can someone explain how that person became a policeman on the other end of a very powerful gun, which he is now going to use with gay abondon ? Every time an innocent citizen gets shot, they will just say they thought they saw a gun and gov will just say OK.........