Malema springs to Mbeki's defence

Boring... When will the MG start writing articles about Nazi's riding Velociraptors? Or perhaps the effects of paint inhalation on small children... I would be more interested in that.

As much as people would like to blame the Mbeki government for the genocide, the real blame needs to be placed firmly on the shoulders of the unethical pharmaceutical companies who put profits squarely before the costs of human life.
The government did the right thing. If they had given in so soon, we, as a nation would have been bankrupt. Holding out brought in international political pressure. It also created a climate where patents were ignored and cheap generics started to flood the market. As this point the thugs running the pharmaceutical companies relented and dropped their prices.
If Mbeki didn't hold out, this would never have happened. So what he did was in fact for the greater good. His strong will held him to stay the correct course, and in my opinion one of his successes. Most of the rhetoric from the era (beetroot & garlic etc) was just part of the bargaining tools to get the prices lower.

@Robin Grant. I agree with you entirely and your sentiments are similar to those echoed by Mbalula that "the innocent will indeed die".

While I agree that Mbeki should not be held responsible for a "genocide" to AIDS patients, I would sharply contend the notion by Malema that Mugabe is a hero. Infact Malema has no facts concerning Mugabe and his Zanupf except what he reads from the newspapers.First and foremost Malema can visit Matabeleland, if he cares and wants to be a respected young leader where he can be informed about how Mugabe turned swords to people he was expected to protect leading to loss of life of over 25 000. Secondly Malema must realise that Zimbabwe is not Zanupf, neither is Zanupf Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a country with people who speak the following languages: Ndebele, Sotho, Venda, Kalanga, Tonga, Shona, Shangani plus other languages. Above all in a democracy we can't have one person rulling a country for 30 years as if he is the only one who has the right leadership skills. True democrats are in office for not more than two terms. Malema's basis of supporting Mugabe is fragmented and confusing as well as portraying a bad image of himself as a young leader. Is he saying Mugabe is his role model and his hero or what?

While I agree that Mbeki should not be held responsible for a "genocide" to AIDS patients, I would sharply contend the notion by Malema that Mugabe is a hero. Infact Malema has no facts concerning Mugabe and his Zanupf except what he reads from the newspapers.First and foremost Malema can visit Matabeleland, if he cares and wants to be a respected young leader where he can be informed about how Mugabe turned swords to people he was expected to protect leading to loss of life of over 25 000. Secondly Malema must realise that Zimbabwe is not Zanupf, neither is Zanupf Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a country with people who speak the following languages: Ndebele, Sotho, Venda, Kalanga, Tonga, Shona, Shangani plus other languages. Above all in a democracy we can't have one person rulling a country for 30 years as if he is the only one who has the right leadership skills. True democrats are in office for not more than two terms. Malema's basis of supporting Mugabe is fragmented and confusing as well as portraying a bad image of himself as a young leader. Is he saying Mugabe is his role model and his hero or what?

Now it's out in the open. Human suffering, distress and misery are all non-issues. The agenda is saving the "Boy's Club" nothing else counts and if you do not belong to the "Boy's Club" woe betide!

@Edward Ndaba. Would you be kind enough to describe the kind of democracy that you are talking about because our democracy as Africans does not necessarily have to conform to the describtion of the western countries. It would be naive and myopic not to adjust the system of governance to your own ways of doing things. I am not a supporter of Mugabe in any way but there are lessons that we can learn from the way he is doing things although more often than not I feel like burrying my boot in his @$$.

Firstly, it would be ludicrous to charge Thabo Mbeki with genocide, what about the aids educators? What about the responsibility from elders and parents to teach the youth not to engage in sexual acts compromising their personal HIV statuses? Will all these people be charged with murder or attempted murder? This is most probably just a pathetically ill-conceived publicity stunt by Buti Manamela, which in turn is opting to score political points from a battle that has long since died. Julius Malema is trying his best to show more posture as a potential leader, but while this would be a no go from the start, the argument given by him is a bit alarming. “We must not charge one of our own”, only on the basis that they are of THEIR OWN? So this is basically an admission that the leaders mentioned (Zuma and Mugabe) could be prosecuted but wouldn’t, because they are part of the ruling elite? And only because of this? No wonder Helen Zille’s pushing for a prosecution, she obviously knows the ruling elite better than Joe public. As for the critics, I am a fan of our President! Further more, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the crises that Zimbabwe has escalated into (immigrants filling SA on an unprecedented scale). More assertive leadership from SA against the NON HERO Mugabe, could have secured a better deal for all Zimbabweans and SA’cans.

Secondly, the perception and along going uneducated propaganda that all whites are rich and all blacks are poor, should be revised by everyone supporting a way forward in our country. Why do leaders (Malema) keep on hammering the race issue while the economic challenges in South-Africa should in actual fact be fought BY the poor, AGAINST the rich, irrelevant of race! I understand the historic suppression argument, but it is on the other hand very naïve to think that all whites are rich. Would that not indicate that no progress has been made since1994? The youth league should maybe start thinking of coming up with solutions to a multi racial country, and not only for black SA. This will also boost their credibility and support in a variety of communities. At the very least Malema staunchly supports the poor, much more than most politicians, but then again, this is also debatable.

@Ngoako Modiba: The Nats also adjusted the principles of democracy to their way of doing things...

Aids is spread by unprotected sex and drug use. How is that Mbeki's fault? People need to take responsibility for their own lives.

If you understand politics you would agree that Malema is a maestro politician at work.
He is way ahead of his peers and it will take time before they can catch up with him, and thats if they will ever do.
Look at how he dealt with the Free State university saga when one unknown politician tried to gain national recognotion and thought he was paying it the Malema way when he said Prof J. should be "shot and killed". The "Lion of the North" (Malema) changed tune and came out in defense of Prof J and we never heard anything from the relatively unknown politician. He is Today in the dustbin of Malema's history.
Now he's up against Manamela. Manamela suggests Mbeki should be charged with genocide and Malema is not dancing to that one.
Malema does not suggest but tells the young communist league man and all those who think like him that "It will necver happen".
Thank again for supportting Zanu -PF.
As much as we don't support the violence in Zimbabwe, we cannot in the same tone, support puppets governments and lap-dogs of the Western empire.
Lastly, we need a share of this land.
Tell them to hurry up and not test our patience.
We fought for freedom and we must be economically free.

"We must not charge one of our own". Oh I see, the rights of black people don't matter anymore then because the last time I checked Africa was 99% black. A leader can now stay in power forever, starve his people, destroy economies, steal from national coffers, conscript children into his army, buy weapons instead of medicine and food. Malema - Stupid prick still living in the past and playing with the emotions of black people again.

I think most of us are naive to think that the HIV/AIDS issue is a purely health issue.I think politics and mostly business considerations have long overtaken its health dimension.I think i remember Trevor Manuel, on one of the international news channels, saying that the international scientific world had begun grappling with the same issues that Mbeki had raised earlier.

But the question to me is:do we arrest people for their personal opinions?

On Mugabe; there are many "lifetime" and autocratic leaders on the continent and the West is not saying anything about them: why Mugabe? Bongo of Gabon was at the helm for 42 years and the West was silent, even in the midst of allegations that he silenced his critics and was corrupt;why? I am not saying that Mugabe is right, all I am saying is that with all these double standards it is difficult to believe that these governments are raising these things out of genuine concern for the people of Zimbabwe.

This talk of charging Mbeki for genocide is just absurd. Of course his/the Cabinet's stand on HIV and AIDS was outrageous and dangerous but here we are with the most comprehensive roll out of antiretrovirals in the world and yet the death rate from AIDS is escalating at an exponential rate. If the people of South Africa in the current circumstances do not take responsibility for their lives and lives of those they infect with impunity, what leads us to think they would have done so in the past - this disease spreads through wholesale denial by the some of the very people who want to hold a gun to Mbeki's head for genocide. Really, it is time to grow up, lose the victim mentality and become responsible. Failing that, we could take the drugs to the doorstep of every AIDS sufferer, but without the requisite change of attitude, the incidence of AIDS will continue to rise notwithstanding the incredible efforts of AIDS activists.

Pale, the sad part is he has a lot of support. Read Max Matsimela's blog. That is why the ANC choses to keep people living in shacks and undeducated. They don't care about the well being of these people, they only use them as voting fodder. Sad but true!

"We must not charge one of our own". So, Bra JuJu, if Mbeki or Mugabe has to force your wife or girlfriend to perform unspeakable acts against their will, we must not charge them, simply because they are one of our own? Good luck with figuring that one out..

Louise Doidge- That is not true and your problem is that you have a fixed mind and you probably will never know anything except what you have been taught at school.
Shacks are a direct results of the apartheiid government and they have nothing to do with the ANC.
The ANC cannot, within 15 years in power, correct all the ills created by the former apartheid regime for over 100 years.
It's the people's choice to continue voting for the ANC or do you have anyone in mind that you think they should vote for?

I agree with most of what Malema is saying but on the Zanu-PF(Mugabe)matter tha's where I have to differ.

Mugabe hates the Ndebele and Kalanga people from Matabeleland.He maimed more than 25000 people from the Matebeleland Region with the help of the British and the Koreans.Malema should get his facts straight about this holocaust.

Hey Max Matsimela, starting off a response with ...your problem is that... is being a bit assumptive. But hey, maybe thats your problem, maybe that's what they taught you at school and you will never know anything else. As for the ANC, they have had 15 yrs and nothing to show for it, except for infighting, corruption and bling, bling BLING.

genocide gen"o*cide n.
The systematic killing of a racial or cultural group; as, the
Nazi genocide of Jews left few in Germany or Poland after
World War II.

Whatever mistakes Mr. Mbeki and his cabinet may have made in their HIV/Aids policies. Whatever the reasons and/or conspiracies that effected these policies. There are a couple of undeniable facts.

Firstly, whatever it was that happened, does not, and can not in any way be described as genocide. I do not say this in defence of anything that was done or not done, but simply in terms of what the word actually means (see definition above). We must be careful not to cheapen words such as genocide with over-use in situations where they just do not apply. Cheapening such words opens the door for the real thing to once again be ignored until it is too late, because we have inoculated ourselves against the true horror of such word.

Secondly, while this can in no way be termed "genocide", I do believe that many people stood by far to easily and quietly while millions of people died; not just in South Africa, but all over the world. Yes, part of this responsibility within SA falls on our government at the time. Yes, part of this responsibility falls just as squarely on greedy drug companies. However, we proudly claim that we are a democratic people, and that our government is therefore our direct representative. "Government of the people, for the people, by the people". With this in mind, we, who stood, & still stand by only criticising and complaining must also take as much responsibility as "OUR" government. We did not insist strongly enough! We did not own our own governance! We also stood by and ignored all those deaths! Some were connected to us by nationality, some only by their fellow humanity, but we stood by.

Until we reject both over-emotionalism and the culture of blame and denial that goes with it, we will accomplish little or even nothing truly positive. We, the people, must stand up and take responsibility for our governance - as we already so proudly and falsely claim.

Although I don't agree that genocide is a fair accusation, I have to say that I love Juju's rationale: Don't hold our leaders accountable - or you might be held accountable for your actions and decisions next!!
Hawu Juju, accountability in leadership is such a preposterous idea hmm??? What a joke!

Das H - For your information, Most of my schooling was under Bantu education and as you know, it was useless and did not offer anything useful.
What i know now is not what they taught me at school.
I figured it out myself.
It's not a fact that all the ANC leaders are corrupt. there are capable cadres within that movement. The ANC made Mandela. remember? and it is still capable of making another Mandela.
Stop protecting the ills of apartheid.

Max - small point: apartheid was in place between 1948 and early 1994. Too long by about 46 years, for sure, but apartheid did not last 100 years.
I applaud the MG for writing these articles about Malema. Malema embodies the attitudes and beliefs of a big part of the ANC and South African society in general. Hearing what he has to say illustrates perfectly how close South Africa really could be to becoming just another African basket-case.
To be fair to him, most of what Malema says is ok - just things like "We must never surrender our leaders" and "We must not charge one of our own" should raise eyebrows. And I love the quote about his car! I wonder whether he was referring to the Range Rover or the Mercedes. Golf estate next, hey Julius!

Malema is the ANC. He is not just some little nobody. (Even though we might want to think that)The ANC use Malema for exactly what they need at the time. (And considering the responses from most, to good effect) Malema is well scripted and primed. If that were not true then he would have been gone a long time ago. Do you know the good cop bad cop strategy, this is it. All countires use it, some better than others.

Facts and stuff like that: I Echo your sentiments. Mbeki shouldn't be tried for genocide, but Mugabe should be.

Well you can just knock me over with a feather. Malema defended Mbeki? Maybe it is because for the same argument Zuma can be charge with rape and genocide for his "women wearing skirts wants to have sex" and "shower prevents Aids" arguments? Or maybe just because it is officially "we don't like our alliance partners anymore" season in the ANC (not that I'm complaining...)

Fact - There are now twice as many people in poverty compared to 1994. Yes, about 10million more people who live on less than USD2/day. This is what has been achieved in 15 years. Yes, we do have a gender commission and employment equity "ministry" and lots of other very important institutions like this, and well paid civil servants of the right colour shade. Really though, this means nothing if poverty is still growing.

Hi Max. You say "Tell them to hurry up and not test our patience.
We fought for freedom and we must be economically free". You are right...but I think you've left out some of the chief culprits!
I suggest you (and all the other guys) go gently here. Yep, apartheid was a terrible concept; and yes, shacks are a clear example of economic inequity. However, we now live in a region with legal equality. Economic equality however has not been reached. My country (SA) gave 45-70 billion rand away to a French arms dealer! This occured in a free and democratic SA. That's R100 000 per head! R400 000 per 4 person household! It's the difference between poverty and good education and skills. Let's all wake up, and start fighting the real battles! This is a massive theft of individual wealth (taxpayers' money). You are so right to complain about economic inequity - however, we all need to blame the right people. We moan about the past, while the present is what's really hurting our impoverished countrymen. Let's forget the race rubbish (it's fast becoming childish stuff), and get on with creating expectations from government to deliver services. Peace, brothers (and let's get our money back! It belongs to you 'n I, not some arms manufacturer)

@max matsimela Yes, Bantu education was not fair. HOWEVER, please tell me what education system the black people had in place for their children before the whites came up with Bantu education? Why did the blacks rely on the whites to share their education system with the blacks? Why didn't you have your own?

just saying, i hope what you wrote up there about President Zuma you (realy) just saying, and again if not so just let me know...

im waiting!!!!!!!!!!

@max matsimela part 2: About the shacks... Have you seen Malema's house in Sandton? Zuma's house in Houghton? Why don't they built a couple of shacks replacements? If you drive through Sandton you will see some average-luxury cars driven by whites, but the shiniest ones are driven by blacks. Now why don't they share?

Africa 4 Africans: up to the old Kill the Boer kill the farmer tricks again?

Maybe Buti needs to be told to research issues of importance before he opens his mouth.

South Africa has been the leading supplier of antiretroviral drugs to its citizenssince 2003, and that definetely was under Thabo Mbeki's leadership.

In responding to Malema, Buti says look at the number of people infected.

Quetions?
Did Thabo Mbeki infect them?
What if those people say we took Jacob Zuma's rape trial statement and applied it?

@Wayne Exactly. People should take responsibility for their actions that leads to HIV infection. We should also look at community leaders influence in this regard. Are they doing enough to educate the community regarding family planning and abstinence? They ultimately have more influence on individuals in their community and can do more. If anything Mbeki and Manto should out of free will donate money to Aids programs though.

I beleive our lovely newspaper shouldn't really focus on Malema baseless debates, rather let us wait to hear about what Marcus could bring to this troubled economic crisis. If Malema wanted such attention in dragging Mbeki's name it's just typical of opportunist and you wonder how Manamela failed lot of younger students during his failed leadership at the troubled white dominated college and they had both never represented the aspirations of the young people in this country. Malema stays in the suburbs of Sandton while poor younger people are struggling to survive on daily basis. Moopong Sekhukhune

What is the definition of genocide? I realise the destruction caused by the loss of one's composure and the abrasion to one's respect in the eye's of peers, but I am GATVOL, gatvol of our poisoned body politic, maningless rhetoric of the authorities, senseless mutterings of illiterate politicians as evidenced by this article which is bereft of any sensible content and how it invariably will degenerate to mean spirited projectiles of racist bile , whats the point.........

I sometimes wonder how old all of you are. I often hear that as peaple grow up they reach a point where they can't grow any further, mentally and physically, their thinking ability as depicted in their reasoning reaches a point of saturation or equilibrium before it detoriarate to the point where they think like children. Reading all your postings is like witnessing this phenomenon...and I would be surprised if some denial comes through from one or all of you.

@ just saying: if it comes to that, then one settler on bullet should apply, you cant just insult our prez like that didn't he wget acquited by the court concern that attetion seeker lady? oh i forget you only respect the judiciary system when its suits you...

Africa 4 Africans You can't blame others for what our prez said. Those were his words, and if Mbeki's Aids denial can be blames for Aids deaths then to the same argument Zuma's remarks about women wearing skirts (NOT whether he raped her or not *) can be blamed for influencing rapists and his shower remarks (*) can be blamed for Aids. And please, don't be offended next time white people say that blacks tend to act like barbarians if you yourself want to solve differences in opinion with a bullet. You fought for democracy. That includes freedom of opinion.

Africa 4 Africans are you saying that an insult to the president deserves the death penalty or murder? An interesting notion of democracy you have there!!!... And we wonder why Africa’s leaders abuse their power when they have lap dogs or is that rabid dogs like you to defend them.

I thought MG moderated the comments? There is some real garbage and sicken talk in these comments.

Africa 4 Africans - I think u a white guy just causing kak, because no educated person black or white would come out with such arseholic comments as yours. So either you a sh$itstirrer or just stupid.

some points or fact could only / if not mostly be seen or understood once there was or is a terrible mistake on them. now i allow south africans together with the ANC TO BURN THIS COUNTRY TO ASHES- THEY WILL RECOVER IT LATER WHEN THERE WILL BE NO WHITE AND BLACK MEN TO BLAME FOR THE MESS-JULIUS IS COMPARING FARMS AND CARS AND HOPES HE IS DRIVING A POINT.a farmer in lephalale is operating at a cash flow of 2 million per quarter-producing 70 000 tons of potatoes per quarter- he took over the farm from blacks for no penny but he worked the farm and the farming business to the value of 16 mil - he is 4.5 mil indebted by the farm-that 70 000 produce is contributing to the economic growth of the country- if u take that farm away and give it to mayor: zoleka chapha - langa in two months she will be producing 54 tons of potatoes so now tell me- who is foooling who malema? burn it-we will build it all over again this time without u malema.

just saying: you got it all wrong where in the trial did Zuma say women with mini skirts invite to be raped? on the DA website perhaps? you like to be irrelavant most of the times i dont blame you , your leader also realised after months about the same remarks you just made about Zuma and rape trial, it was during the trial not during the campaing or manifesto, so why will you blame Zuma for that? if so then the peolpe should go to each trial that is conducted in the court and take whater it said during the cross xamm..and use it.

Can all Malema ditractors for once agree with him.?..viva Juju boy...u make sense at times...ur r a real politician

Africa 4 Africans Zuma said it (regardles whether it was during a trial or a campaign) and the uneducated masses (who are so dedicated to him that they will even murder when someone blames him for his own mistakes) heard it and will (like all his other words) follow it as gospel. And no, I didn't get it from the DA (or the IFP or the FF)'s website. It was well published in all forms of media at the time of the trial.

God! I'm leaving this "chatroom".

just saying , so the ppl, who died of aids recently did they infect themselves delibarately then thinking that the shower will do justice for them? can you show me one or two of those ppl who are (hiv+)bcoz of Zuma's trial response, or maybe you have a family member who have taken that route or maybe you are one of them? just saying also..

Mbeki:

I do not anyone who has aids.

Aids was not caused by a viral infection,
Manto Tshabala-Mnsimang:
"Nutrition is the basis of good health and it can stop the progression from HIV to full-blown Aids, and eating garlic, olive oil, beetroot and the African potato boosts the immune system to ensure the body is able to defend itself against the virus and live with it.
Julius Malema:

Mbeki is a dictator, and will be removed over the weekend (Polokwane 2008)

….Fine … we are no longer beating it and we will burying this snake (Mbeki) this weekend………..

(Snake: Zuma referring to Mbeki’s government as a dead snake which should not be beaten again, if already dead)

Conclusion:
Malema cannot even remember what he said a year ago – first “burying” Mbeki and now defending him. Understandable with his level of education.

Max, it is true that the ANC are happy to keep people in shacks. All the money spent on the arms deal, on propping up SAA, Eskom, SABC and the likes could have built thousands and thousands of houses. Houses were not and still is not their priorty. I was taught at a young age to use my brain and be a free thinking individual. Thank goodness for that. Even a duck as president would make more sense!!!!! I was brought up in the Eastern cape and know that most people that migrate to the cities still have houses there. Nice holiday houses!!!!! Why aren't people building their own house like in the Eastern Cape? They are surely a lot better than a shack. Oh forgot to mention that the youth league want 1 BILLION rand this year, for what?????

@pale Rider:do you need qualifications to defend the truth? or skin colour for that matter? or my commnets are too competent for a black person no wonder you think im white?

Julius Malema you are not schooled and you are not learned hence the shallow and hollow comments you always shamelessly vomit.
No single word that comes from your mouth has got any sense to me.You appeal to me as a wide mouthed lunatic from a grim institution who is given to saying nothing in a lot of words.May someone up there show some respect for the good south African youth and show Malema the door.The fact that you made a lot of noise campaigning for Zuma does not mean you are a politician.
Malema JUJU Julie get off those nappies and grow up. When will it dawn to you that you are the leader of a youth that is intelligent and aspiring for greatness. You stop being a parody of man

Very Interesting comments from all. Yeah i think Malema has the right intentions, however his reasoning may well be flawed. His obsession with race is also some what frightening. Nevertheless, good leaders should not be passing blame. Bad decisions have been made YES. So what is our way foward, why do we spend so much time focusing on the negative and not strive to find solutions so that the disadvantaged can be uplifted. And more importantly minimise the spread of HIV/AIDS. 15 years is a long time for democracy and we should be seeing the fruits of this so called change. However the roots of apartheid go much deeper than an imbalance and distribution of wealth and land. I think the trauma and emotional scaring of this evil spirit of apartheid still possesses this land. Its difficult to redistribute emotions to those who have lost loved ones and have been separated by families. The lack of self esteem, lack confidence, anger, hate, fear,etc. are attributes that are attached to the system of apartheid. People may be free but are not actually free. We all need mass deliverance to be free totally from such evil that has affected us all for more than 50 years. Without God no one can totally be free.Our Government needs God, We all need God. Forgiveness is only possible through him. Our people need to be free, true change is only possible when true freedom is accomplished. May the land and the people of South Africa be FREE.

wow wow wow @Max Matsimela!("ANC made Mandela")

You have gone way too far!
MANDELA made ANC!
THAT IS A FACT & STAFF LIKE THAT!

Amandla!!

For the record: Genocide means "the murder of an entire ethnic group: the systematic killing of all the people from a national, ethnic, or religious group, or an attempt to do this". It's use is thus inappropriate in this context.

The Mail & Guardian provides a useful service by publishing Malema's nonsense. We come to know the nature of the man and reach our own conclusions. He comes over as a megalomaniac, never to be trusted.

Well said Julius........

Kufakubonwa Yengwayo on November 17, 2009, 11:35 am !

Pointing a finger on otherz?
Other 4 fingers (if you are normal) R pointing @yourself!

Some lil advice;
"Kura Uone"!

Shu!

Anyone who spoke out about Mbeki’s and Manto’s ‘corrupt thinking’, and top down policies, lost their jobs. Ask John Robbie. Once they had cornered the public’s thinking with their views that HIV did not cause AIDS and that a syndrome is not a disease, we were left with the public who did not know what to believe. To use the drug companies as an excuse is Mugabe level stupidity, and misdirection. History will have an extremely poor view of Mbeki’s presidency. And not Malema or any of his blighted colleagues can white wash or protect him from that. To paraphrase Elvis Costello, ‘All I hope is that I live long enough to jump on Mbeki and Manto’s graves’

Couldn't agree more with you:

edward ndaba
Johan Steynvaart
roselyn morrow !

100%
@ Max Matsimela.......There is no difference between you & Malema!

Shu!

@ GONONDE omkhuhlu: do you know the history of the ANC? I will take an educated guess.mmm....mmmm HELL NO.Mandela was inside most of the time and Sisulu and the rest were busy fighting your 2day's bosses that you defend, so i will agree whith max here, unless you wanna battle with me about the ANC and PAC'S history then you are welcome...counter...

Gononder,

Why don't you stay out of South African politics. You have such chutzpah that I am still flabbergasted..........

Our honourable youth league president, Comrade Julius Sello Malema, has hit the proverbial nail on the head, as always.
No wonder people like UFS Prof Jansen holds him in such high regard.

Oh on thanx @ Africa 4 Africans!


Google...& staf like that.....help so much when somebody is in a very desparate situation (WHICH M NOT INTO @ THIS MOMENT IN TIME), THANX.

SHU!

GONONDER OMKHULU - Maybe you are right to suggest there's no difference between me and Malema. I don't have a problem with that.
But you are wrong to say Mandela mande the ANC , the ANC made Mandela and i still repeat it, The ANC made Mandela.
By the way, I doubt your political maturity.

max matsimela on November 17, 2009, 4:19 pm
and in that breath, ANC also made Mbeki Zuma McBride, Dr Beetroot and all te travelgate mense, also don't forget all the cadres sitting in the state companies that are falling apart....all a result and product of ANC...... Remember a leader is born not made and i doubt very much that ANC MADE Mandela

@gonononde, whay did you just say up there? your fingers are working faster than your brain, now i see you realy nid some schooling, not only in politics 101

Vitriolic, wild and sweeping statements are not taking us any further. Is that how we would want to catapult ourselves and be on the limelight? This is one country we should all strive to build. Mbeki and Manto played their part within their tenure of governance as ANC cadres. If they are to be charged, it would be charging the ANC in government and this would be very unfortunate. I disagree with Mr. Manamena and agree with Mr. Malema on this one. This is a slur.
However, I find it hard to agree with Malema saying “we must not charge one of our own”. Is it not being sly perhaps? What does it mean going forward? Are we to see many others not being charged because they would be part of our own? I do not think also, that we can equate Thabo‘s decision in government with that of President Robert Mugabe. Mugabe is no good for his country anymore. His term of office has expired. He was good then, and not now. Yes we can support Zanu-PF, but let us support the unity government now. Is it worth supporting Zanu-PF if the version of the the truth is what we read and hear from the media? Can we in our right frame of mind say Mugabe is right now? No Julius. Zanu ruin Zimbabwe and Zanu is not being mindful of those less privileged. Is there no better leader except for Robert?
Not everything that counts need to be counted and not everything that can be counted counts

"..it was important for the ANCYL to support Zimbabwe's Zanu-PF...Those who have led for a long time must allow new leaders to come in, said Malema about African leaders' tendencies to cling to power." for the record Mugabe has been in power for close to 3 decades and that sounds like a long time to me. Maybe its time he took your advice and allowed new leaders? just a thought.

the boy's clever!

oh Juju! shush please.........enough dude.

@ Pale Ride

I see no one answered your question with regards to the education offered to blacks by blacks pre-colonisation. Well its called home schooling, were youngsters were taught at home African methods of agriculture, community responsibility, respect for the elderly, values etc. This type of education was holistic because it did not focus on academics only, you should read your history because this education system made it so difficult for whites to enslave blacks thay they had to bring indians to do cheap labour in this country. It's interesting than when europeans were dying of cholera and other diseases africans were thriving with their education system, living healthy lives. You should do more research, I perceive you are victime of apartheid propaganda that made people like you think that Africans did not have a life before colonisation or that the whites brought civilisation to our shores.

let me move on to better things. Julius Malema is right again, the youngman never ceases to amase me. He is such a brilliant leader, treading were many dare not. The AnC will mold Malema just like it molded a former "rouble-rouser" called Nelson Mandela into one of the most respected statesman in the world, watch the space. if you doubt me read "Long Walk to Freedom" and you will see how Rolihlahla was moulded by the likes of ZK Mathews, Chief Luthuli, Gaur Radebe etc. ZK Mathews once labelled him a rouble rouser.

Mr. Mbeki is not guilty of nothing. The government provided free condoms for all the responsible people.

If you practise unsafe sex,you will contract HIV, THEN

Knowing your status, and you do not take care of your health, You will get Aids

And you are vulnerable to any sickness.

Mr. Malema here is not defending former President Mbeki but attacking him.

@Edward Ndaba
The only reason Malema spoke about President Mugabe was to give a certain perception about the former President he is pretending to defend. Like you said, his argument for supporting President Mugabe is fragmented and confusing. That was not his main goal, his goal was to create a link between someone he knows is demonised (President Mugabe) and the former President. In the eyes of many, it’s easy to discredit a leader, one need only liken them to President Mugabe. He is further quoted as saying, “ Those who have led for a long time must allow new leaders to come in… We have refused that in South Africa.” Essentially attacking President Mugabe and giving the impression that just like President Mugabe former president Mbeki wanted to “cling” to power when the 2 “incidents” are vastly different.

Societies today are composed of a series of institutions; political, social class, occupation specialization institutions. Yet for all the social institutions we are born into, directed by and conditioned upon. There seems to be no system is taken for granted and misunderstood as the monetary system. Taking on newly religious proportion the established monetary institution exist as one of the most unquestioned forms of faith theories. How money is created, the policies by, which it is governed, and how it truly affect society are unregistered interest of the great majority of the population.

In a world where 1% of the population owns 40% of the planet wealth, in a world where 34000 children die every single day from poverty and preventable disease and 50% live in less than R 10.00 in a day. One thing is clear something is very wrong. Whether we are aware of it or not the life blood of all our established institutions and in that society itself is MONEY. Therefore understanding these institutions of monetary policies is critical to understanding, why our lives are the way they are. However the fact is, the complexity associated with the financial system is a mere mess designed to conceal one of the most social paralyzing structure humanity has ever endured. Understanding this institution, you will easily acknowledge that AIDS was created to make profit out of ARV’s and whatever medication is still to come. Mbeki delayed or was refusing ARV’s because he fully understands that AIDS was created to make profit.

As long as you have not committed any crimes against humanity you have nothing to fear. Mr Malema even volunteers RG Mugabe next to Mbeki's name. The kiss of death.

I came to a point where i decided not to comment on this site again. But out of curiocity, i decided to log on and read a few comments, just incase people in here have stopped basing their opinions either the struggle, racism or refusal to be governed by the ANC. And to my disappointment, some things never change. Reading "Just Saying" comments just make me wanna puke.

I never thought I'd ever say this, Viva Malema!

All tarred with the same brush so who cares !

This is adressed to the Mail and Guardian. As a newspaper, I think it's time you took responsibility for your blog-sites. This particular site contains suggestions that the murder of a whole race is an option, becuase one deeply bigotted individual disagrees with a person that is perceived to be of different ethnic background. "one settler one bullet", and insulting references to Malema as "stupid prick" are not good sentiments for a country in which the moderately-minded are becoming increasingly disaffected and concerened. So take a look at some right-wing racist sites, and discover that your blog shares a lot in common with them. Shame on you, giving such extremists a platform. Freedom of speech does not equate to the propogation of hate-speech.