Pikoli: I would not have cleared Zuma

Geez Piko, thats ballsy. You also might not have been around to tell your story dude. I admire your courage because you own kind are going to try and trash you even more for this comment. But, aside from that, it is absolutley true that JZ should have not been able to get this dropped. There sre still many unanswered questions. He is a corrupt politician, like the HO that he is. That does not mean he is not a nice guy. He is a politician which means that he is a liar, a blooducking M/#cuker, a thief and a career bullshitter.

Apocalypse: True that. The wrong kinds of people, are the right kinds of people, for politics.

Vusi Pikoli would not have dropped charges against Zuma.
Well, knock me down with a feather if that is a revelation.
Pikoli had a clear personal vendetta against certain individuals.
He also put his own interests ahead of the country's, to gain fame for arresting Selebi. He cut off his nose to spite his face. He has been left clutching at straws. He has been weighed, measured and found wanting.

Well shame, you missed out on a chance of being famous. Too transparent in your deeds. You only wanted to nail just for your interests and in so doing you messed up the validity of the case. He is our President now and he WILL not be prosecuted come rain or sunshine. Mbeki was too clever for ya'll. He made sure he'll walk out clean and fingers would be pointed at you and Bulelani. Anyway, just another fairytale.

i find it interesting that the worst racists comments on these mail and guardian forums comes from people who use code names. a clear act of cowardice. they cant bedazzle us with brilliance and eloquence in their argument because quite frankly, they are dunderheads! so they bullshit even as they rant and rave! is the mail and guardian forum becoming a platform for sickos? nazis? is it possible these people could be responsible for some acts of racist inspired violence? how do you think some people actually act at home? wife-beaters? child abuser? what about black people in their midsts, their maids etc? it cannot be beyond reality that such people are in our midst on these forums?

the same was said about hasan who killed people in fort hood in the states just two weeks ago? we need to keep our eyes open and maybe ignore them in case we endanger peoples' lifes!

just a thought!

edwin matlapeng

The Moxster

All the culprits who cried conspiracy has never been able to prove anything. You defend the indefensible, what Mantashe might call "the lowest form of irrationality". Seems you've clutched at enough straws to actually make your own straw man.

Edwin Matlapeng on November 17, 2009, 4:29 pm
Where is the racisim, a racisist sees race and you are the only tit commenting on it

Pikoli for Prez! Imagine - an honest politician?! It's an oxymoron!

That's it Ron you tell him dude. I can't help it my folks named me apocolypse. Yes, I have had to live with that all my bloody life. Edwin, sit down doos, you are going to hurt yourself.

please dont hurt me!

The Moxter & Edwin

I cant believe you morons can be so naive about Zuma.
Just like your heroin judge, Nicholson, you completely missed the ball. I suggest you read before give some stupid oppinions on an anything. I might help.

So true Edwin
It's not just M&G, the likes of Moneyweb, Fin24, etc. They are all riddled with these racists who are incapable of formulating a rational argument. All one need do is spew anti-government or anti-black vitriol and they embrace you, no matter how unjustifiable or irrational your argument. Some of them are those that greet and grin at you in the office, some of them are professionals you attend meetings with at work, the common folk you sometimes accidentally bump into when shopping at the supermarket. We fooled ourselves when we thought extending a hand of forgiveness would result in national reconciliation and we’d be fooling ourselves if we think that they will change now. This is something we have to accept and live with, unfortunately.

OMG Edwin and co you are indeed naive. You probably believe that Shabir was indeed on his death's door but now has made a miraculous recovery to the point that his golf game has actually improved. You also believe that these people are acting in the country's interests while they milk government coffers for all they are worth. Amazing.

Of course you wouldn't Vusi. Neither would anybody in sound mind. 783 charges of fraud; where there's smoke, there's fire. Surely at least one of those charges was valid.

Unfortunately that's why you are now unemployed; those who don't clap when Luthuli house speaks, will remain on the outer, in this patronage system.

Really funny how people defend corrupt politicians, by calling those against said corruption, nazi's, wife beaters and child abusers.

Its how school boys resolve their differences. And in retaliation, I'll say:

I know you are, but what am I :)

Most of the comments above seem to have missed the point all together. Most of regular comentors are finished. Stick to the subject people, stick to the subject!

Of course Pikoli would not have withdrew the charges against Zuma. The reason being Nquka wouldn't have allowed him. He is just another puppet of the people who are going down the drain. The reality is that power has shifted and cannot go back to the Nquka

shame Pikoli, i would have been famous, but you can also take Ras Dumisane plan and sing the national anthem in the next Rugby game, then you will be famous...maybe you can do better this time

Edwin Matlapeng, this forum is indeed dominated by racists. You are right, these are cowards who use fake names because in the public at shopping malls and car parks, they would pretend to be the most civilised beings. But you se, Edwin, South Africa is very unequal, so other pockets of SA soceity such as these forums are the priviledges of the well off. These forums are evidence that racism is well and thriving is SA. Perhaps we need tougher ways of dealing with racism. But one thibg for sure, they are unshamed racists. at least in these forums. Some of us would have wished more sane and ribust debates instead of the battle lines of for and against informed by race, but that is just a wish, reality is bloody racism!

Its a shame Pikoli lost his job but at the same time i would rather have a a corrupt politician than have plenty murderers walking the streets like the ones the NPA allowed to go just to nail Selebi. Its was the same thing with McBride.

Just wondering from what i have read Sullivan agrees to have beef with Selebi over some Airport contracts or jobs, so what made him a key to the whole investigation?

Musekwa: Are you for, or against corruption?

Jacob Zuma is already a President; those who still wish he should have been arrested must simply let it go. There are some people who still persist on the philosophy of setting Blacks against each other so as to benefit from that chaos. They pretend to be in support of Pikoli whilst they are in fact in support of putting our leaders in prison so that we are leaderless. These are the very same people who supported the formation of COPE and voted DA. Again, let it go, move on, it will not work. Black people are more intelligent than what you perceive as your garden boys and cleaners. There's no price for our pride and we shall defend our leaders, always.

A real fisherman would not take small fishes home but will put them back into the water to grow. You see, Selebi is a big fish and u cannot put it back into the sea since other fishermen will not hesitate to fry it and share it with their family and friends.

"NPA had given to people like Clinton Nassif and the three assassins who allegedly carried out the murder of Brett Kebble -- Mikey Schultz, Faizel Smith and Nigel McGurk -- in order to obtain information about Selebi."

Just imagine Selebi going to jail and Glen Aglioti and the three assasins Mikey Schultz, Faizel Smith and Nigel McGurk going home. Brett Kebble 's murder is not important in Pikoli 's eyes.

It is fact that Pikoli 's wife has shares in Vulisango, a company indirectly owned by the Kebbles.

I share the concern raised by ntate Edwin Matlapeng. Check out what Mr. Du Preez says about the internet:

But here at home the internet seems to play exactly the opposite role. Local websites have become the purveyors of hate and intolerance.

And let's face it, the internet is the absolutely ideal vehicle for bigots, fascists and extremists. You sit in your own little office or bedroom, just you and your laptop, and you can pretend to be very powerful, because you can anonymously insult anyone and write down the basest thoughts that enter your little mind and within minutes the whole world can read it.

The worst case example is the large number of rightwing extremist South African websites where the most obscene racism is perpetrated daily.

But the "mainstream" websites like those of the daily and weekly newspapers and yes, like News24.com and Litnet.co.za, are also sometimes guilty of hosting and indirectly encouraging mindless bigotry, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia in their chat rooms.

http://www.news24.com/Content/Columnists/MaxduPreez/1033/c6e89aa299214e34a0f597457c27af85/07-10-2009-08-45/Purveyors_of_hate

The untold story is elsewhere. A citizen committed a string of crimes. 700+. When the time of reckoning had come for this citizen 10 "friends" were appointed to a committee the sole purpose of which was to obstruct justice and keep the citizen from facting the wrath of the law. These 10 people are very well connected and lo and behold intercepted communications are illegally leaked by the NIA to the citizen's attorney. The obstruction and subversion of justice has been so in our faces that it's been hard to comprehend the scale of it all. If a policeman obstructs justice by helping out a drug dealer with a bit of info in exchange for some cash and shopping there is all hell to pay, but not so with the guy with 700+ allegations the full details of which have been hidden and locked away. While it is legal for a citizen to help police in their quest to apply the law it is not legal for citizens to go to work behind the scenes obstructing justice like this.

pikoli you deserve a dismisal: now becouse of your quest to nail selebi u are going to release those who posseses illegal fire arms,kills, and launder money because you are not taxed for a crimenal job. how could you proof honesty from the criminal's mind beside they were hired to kill, so we have two criminals here the killer and the hirer and u no longer intrested in that and you are going to release them set the hirer free and head for selebi no one else- you are as good as dead" i protected u in most dialogues but i was wrong "i said you stand for the truth but no you don't. how possible it is that u don't know who your wife is doing business with and how-as a husband u protect your wife against this that can derail your marriage so u knew axactly what ur wife was up against- u ar lying under oath.

The Moxter – “He also put his own interests ahead of the country's”
Now that sounds like core ANC mission statement and policy to me.

No matter how much you try and make this a 'racist' issue, what you are merely doing, is trying to divert attention away from the corrupt individuals, and sweeping it under the 'racism' carpet.

Sure, JZ is president, but that doesnt make him getting off scot free, off his 700+ corruption charges right.

And if you 'really' want to talk about being 'patriotic', then I ask you, how someone with corruption charges, can enter himself into a position in government.

Sure, there is racism in South Africa. Just dont use it, as a shield to hide behind when defending corrupt politicians.

Who is more patriotic:
1) Someone who is against corrupt government officials
2) Someone who defends corrupt government officials
3) The corrupt government official, stealing from South Africa

Sinudeity –
It seems if you attack the government or specifically, the ANC then you are deemed unpatriotic.
Now this sounds like the same reaction given by the old NATS in their day.
Perhaps the ANC is at the same political evolutionary stage as that old party.
The more things change the more ....

Freedoom ndlovu:well said my brother, well said, you took the words out of my thoughts,

Pikoli is an opportunist just like prof. Jansen, he is bitter and angry like Cope members, and out of order like Ras Dumisane,ambitious like DA, he will fall like Goerge Bush.

Freedom – If your leaders are corrupt and deserve to be in jail as you seem to indicate, then you should look for another leader. To follow blindly is not advisable in any form of society. I’m sure even Helen would view your application with some favour .. 

@Sinudeity and Colin. Where were you during apartheid? What role did you play against it? Your government was the most corrupt and brutal of all governments in humanity’s recent past. It is therefore impossible for me to learn anything from you. The Oppressors of yesterday CANNOT be the Democrats of today. In the history of Africa there has never been a white person who brought democracy. You are disqualified from advising on democratic issues. Your fathers’ sins shall be carried by generations to come… and please give us some credit, we shall stick together as people and protect our leaders and where they have done wrong will shall remove them without your input.

Well for me, the biggest highlight is the revelation that Pikoli's wife had shares in a company owned by Brett Kebble who had lulled many into believing he was engaged in a legal business and the very Scorpians were after him. It would have been interesting to know what would have been the situation with Bret involved in some business dealing with Pikoli's wife while Pikoli pursued the same man. He was benefitting on one hand, and pretended to be an honest and law-abiding citizen on the other hand, wow!

The other uncanny or strange co-incidence is the indemnity from prosecution of Bret Kebble's killers, was this to so much to about getting at Selebi than it was about putting the business partnership between his wife and Bret Kebble under the carpet or both.

Imagine if the murderers were given amnesty, Pikoli stood to benefit, not once, but twice in that there will be nobody to testify against his wife, while he other other hand will be able to get at Selebi through the indeminity-granted killers. He will then be popular and earn himself respect for bringing down the top cop in the country while hiding shady deals his wife had with the another murdered criminal, and perhaps with the indeminfied murderers.

He claims only the evil and cruel minds can concoct that, turn it around it seems he has "the evil and cruel mind", too!

He also claims he could not have dropped the charges against JZ no matter what, wow! It shows just how much true the argument advanced by the JZ's defence that him and Ngcuka wanted to convict JZ at all costs, no matter what it takes. That must be an even more evil and the most cruel mind.

Freedom - when you are in a hole , stop digging. You would not recognise democracy if it stole your stash

Freedom Ndlovu: WTF does CORRUPT ANC officials have to do with what I did during apartheid?

LIKE I SAID, STOP DIVERTING ATTENTION OFF CORRUPTION WITH YOUR "WIT GEVAAR" BS!

The fact of the matter stands, freedom, you openly support corrupt government officials. Who rule the country like SELFISH individuals. They do not care about the community, about 'ubuntu'. Only about how much they can get out of it, for themselves, at the cost, of you and me.

It is YOUR ignorance, that led to the moral downfall of the ANC. Because of blind supporters, and their unwillingness to challenge corruption and incompetence.

Sinudeity – You last paragraph sums it up perfectly. As has been shown throughout history – Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The bitter irony for Freedom and his brothers is that the country would be better served by a weaker ANC. That is the essence of democracy. If’s more about opposition than it is about the ruling elite.

Breaking NEWS

Some members of Parliament, who earn more than R700000 a year, are taking home an extra R40000 a month in petrol claims, according to ID leader Patricia de Lille.
Suspended Correctional Services chief financial officer Patrick Gillingham lived a life of luxury, expensive cars and overseas trips financed by a company that won multimillion rand contracts from the department.
Last year Balfour instructed Vernie Petersen, then director- general, to extend Bosasa’s catering contract without putting it out to tender.
ASA tender scam
Travel-gate scam
Moseneke’s issue
Arms deal etc. the list is endless.

Is there anyone involved in the above likely to be prosecuted and has been successfully prosecuted? The theme is “We must never surrender our leaders," "Thabo Mbeki might have made mistakes but we can never charge him. We must not charge one of our own.”

A question is when do we stop?

Imagine an ordinary law abiding citizen owing the municipality R90 and when he arrives home, water has been soft-lock and electricity has been disconnected. On the other hand, another acclaimed law abiding citizen owes municipality R12 000 rates and taxes and nothing is being done because every time they come for him, he bribes the person in charge. Where is justice? Shoplifting, mugging, traffic fines, housebreaking etc, most people who committed this crimes are in jail awaiting trial. What about our politicians, will their time ever come? It’s a soapie…

@Sunideity and Colin- As I have already said, you are disqualified from preaching anything about corruption or democracy. I have nothing to learn from you.

@sinudeity and colin: why cant you guys leave the ANC, alone if we are doing bad then that should be a bonus for you, coz you really want to rule this country, besides no one ask for your opinion rather your advise on how to govern this country , you had your chance during your white regime guess what you f#$k up our country by your brutality and criminality, you also pass it to your kids look what happened in the bloemfontein university, so is either you shut up or win the elections,simple

A 4 A - they took your stash too ??
These damn democrats! You just can't trust them to stay quiet in the face of incompetence and arrogance.

Contrast the sheer brilliance of Willie Hofmeyrs SIU in the correctional services corruption case and the Nel's shambolic incompetence in this matter. No indemnities have been granted!
Nel needs to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" not on a "balance of probabilities". Even a balance of probabilities is now proving elusive. Where are your credible witnesses, Nel? None of these witnesses has brought anything to the stand. SURELY ON THE BASIS OF THE EVIDENCE SO FAR, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CASE AGAINST SELEBI!!!
The SIU must take over this case and investigate the Scorpions and the NPA and Selebi. A terrible injustice has been done here and as South Africans, we should hang our heads in shame!

Racism is always the refuge of the village idiot!! Apart from that it really cheapens the struggle against apartheid and the achievements of countless numbers of citizens of South Africa. If the court finds him guilty, fine!!! Lets keep an open mind here. In a country that is plagued by violent crime, it is indeed a travesty of justice that those who have committed terrible savage crimes are now paragons of virtue and shielded witnesses for the state!!!. (By the way please move to the latest page and stop hiding behind a pseudonyms)

Karimi – I agree with your comments
It is true this is an injustice and goes much further than the mandate of this case. However, I will not stand in shame with those who have the power to do the right thing, and are not.
I will stand with the rest of us in indignation and anger.

I think Agliotti was very smart.
Right from the start he admitted to being a liar and drug dealer.
Now everything he says is tainted with that character. So how can he be believed in anything he says?
Is he perhaps Selibi’s fall-guy? Obviously Agliotti has indemnity but it seems similar to the role Shiek played in the Zuma fiasco? Is this an ANC Modus operandi?

Freedom & A4A: As PROUD and PATRIOTIC South African, I will take EVERY opportunity I can, to point out corruption, incompetence and mismanagement within the government. The more you try and 'disenfranchise' me with your 'apartheid' nonsense, the more I want to make myself vocal against the corruption, incompetence and mismanagement. And against your ignorance.

Please, keep it up. The more you back the corrupt individuals, the more I am encourages, to find out for myself, about the corruption and mismanagement and incompetence, and shout it from the roof tops.

You dont realise it, but I am in fact, helping building MY country. By shouting for the heads of corrupt individuals, I am building South Africa.

By protecting, and covering up corruption, you are merely breaking down MY country. Which makes you an enemy of South Africa.

Amandla!

sinudeity and COLIN: Freedoom, did ask you a q? what did you do to end apartheid? i dont have a problem when you raise your concern about corruption, but on how do you raise it, did you guys shout it from the roof tops during political brutality? or you just abusing something that you did not fight for? by attacking those you realy did suffer while you were smiling all the way to the top without lifting a finger to achive them?

A4A: I was busy playing with my toy cars in the dirt and mud cities when apartheid ended.

A4A - keep looking backwards. That way you won't see the brick of reality comming your way

I cannot believe this forum has degraded to a race debate - WTF? Edwin, you idiot - where's the racism in these comments? Just because people disagree with the ANC doesn't make them racist. I know a lot of black people who are against the ANC because of their corruption. Does that make them racsists? I don't care what colour our President is, nor the Parlimentarians - I JUST DON'T WANT CORRUPT ONES. Your absolute fear that if the ANC is not in power, apartheid will come back is totally rubbish, and the ANC knows this, and knows that to perpetuate this fear is going to keep them in power, no matter how much money they steal from you and I.


Guy Morel aka Gumrol

I guess you guys have not travelled often or done much reading on the politics around the world hey? Oppression - try Burma, China, Russia etc., or closer to home - Uganda, Kenya Nigeria and so on. For levels of poverty - all of the above and then add the old India, South America, Asia as a whole and then the very topical Afghanistan and Irak. You guys don't know the meaning of oppression or of real poverty> Lets get the justice system back up and running and put all those who are suspected of corruption, stealing from the country etc in prison where they belong - of I forgot the prison system is also corrupt - its where you go for a 3 meals a day and plasma screen tv holiday and don't have to work for your pay!!!!

Gum Rol - exactly ! NO-ONE wants apartheid back. But then the NATS used the same fear tactic amongst it's followers - swart gevaar!

I just think the ANC is so afraid of losing the popular vote they will back anyone they think will keep the flock at home. They have forgotten they still need morals or good governance.

Instead of giving the masses the leader they think they want, just give us the service we all need and deserve.

@sinudeity: you see the different between me and you? while you palying with toys cars, i was busy running to meet my pregnant mother half way with a wet cloth in my hand to wipe the tears gas smoke on her way from the shops, i understood what was happening coz it happens b4 me alike you, you only saw it on t.v and think it happens from another planet, and the next thing you wake up and everything is on silver platter, so dont know a diffenrent between democracy and apartheid or segregations coz u never experience hardship,


@colin: if i dont know where i came from i will never know where im going, reality is what happened to me when you folks stole evrything from us, and killing innocent soul to minimize blacks,let me morn and heal on my own without you forcing me to it, but telling to move on its in the past, 15 years cant wipe 48years.. thats reality bro..

@Sunideity- who cares what you do? Go jump. @Colin, ANC or no ANC a Black Man must forver rule South Africa.

sue - you mention Burma and China.

Interestingly the self righteous SA government once declined to vote against Burma's atrocities, citing it was an internal affair.

Plus they declined the Dalai Lama a visa, bowing to Beijing, stating his visit would deflect from the world cup. What a facile excuse.

A4A: You experienced hardship. Doesnt that mean, that you will inherently fight even harder against corruption? Against anything that could harm the freedoms that you faught for?

Freedom: You asked.

you guys wont understand, we already has signs and symtoms of black haters, 1. reitz 4,
2.draging a black man for 7km with a bakkie blamming it on medication
3. shooting a small black boy mistaken for a dog
4.shooting a black guy who looks like a monkey
shall i go on ?
so tell me if whites rule this country again all tjis wil disappear in the air? i think so, dont you guys ever thought that maybe our fear is best thing that ever happens to us after 1994?

A4A: Its ALWAYS those 4 cases, that the sheeple mention, when talking about the 'wit gevaar'.

Please answer me this:
Are you for, or against corruption?

A4A - nothing can erase what happened and nothing should. We need preserve the good with bad which has shaped our destiny.
At the same time we need more action at grassroots levels of schooling and fundamental infrastructure. I would like to see more innovative action in these areas but the focus seems to be at the easy to change level – like painting the rook without securing the basement. And all along we need governance and control.

Your black man can sit in the hot seat I don’t care but he better perform if he wants my vote. I don’t give that blindly.

BTW – black man? your racist patriarchal side is showing comrade HA!

@sinudeity: the cases are endeless, remeber the north west doctors who have two doors in his palce one for darkies and one for whites? waht about the joburg white prosecuter who send only black juvenils to jail and let whites one go home with only warnings? surely you are still playing with your toys and mud houses,

as for your q? i support anything that will keep a white person from oppressing me again, coz i might get a call from Waterkloof primary school saying my daughter is no longer allowed in the school due to her skin colour.

Africa 4 Africans on November 18, 2009, 2:19 pm
You have listed 3 incedents (white on black)racism, that has been exasibated because of our previous history and demographics, lets start listing the black on white racism that occurs in S.A every day and we'll run out of space. Racism works both ways....and to plead "so tell me if whites rule this country again all tjis wil disappear in the air? i think so, dont you guys ever thought that maybe our fear is best thing that ever happens to us after 1994? " as if blacks are inoccent of hate crimes is nieve and stupid. Unfortunatly there will be those nieve few who hate on both sides but to call any critism against popular view racist is not making it easier

A4A: In turn I can throw you equal amounts of cases of white folks attacked by black folks etc.

You didnt answer my question, I will ask again.
Are you for, or against corruption

@Sinudeity@gmail.com, I often laugh at your postings coz their are so amusing. You are like a spoilt and emotional child that does not even look at the point of discussion. I sometimes think that there is something you smoke that stimulates your thinking.

For your knowledge, the reason why apartheid scars will take long to heal is because it not hurt or injured the opponents, it also injured the proponents. It created a situation that is such that even if colours disappeared from the skin of human in SA, they will still see them in their minds.

It would be like the smallest creature in the jungle still have vivid pictures of the biggest animals...the dinosaurs...long after they were extinct.

Apartheid and dinasaurs are similar in that there are those who still mimmick dinasaurs just like there are those like you who still bask in the glory of apartheid...denialism does not help to hide the joy you find in its achievements and the anger you feel in its demise.

For your information, the reason why you have information or you even know the word corruption is because of the open society fought for and created by the ANC, like it or not, otherwise, the old apartheid wouldn't be so kind as to allow that...and the fact that no apartheid prosecution was pursued after the dawn of democracy was not becuase there was less or no corruption during this era, in fact there wanton corruption during apartheid, but the reason it was not pursued was partly to avoid civil wars as your forefathers would have taken arms and saw persecution rather prosecution everywhere, and partly because our prosecution authority was infested with spies, special branch operatives, and agents provocateur of the previous apartheid regime (now this includes both black and white) who want to settle political scores using or abusing our liberal legal system.

Now, say thank to the political party that allowed to air your anyhow anywhen, to anybody who cares to listen without any fear of being persecuted...the name of that party is your homework...

@sinuseity:In turn I can throw you equal amounts of cases of white folks attacked by black folks etc.

there is a different between attacking white people and reposesing with force, like whites used to do during your regime,


as for you q? i will answer again, I SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT WILL KEEP A WHITE PERSON FROM OPPRESSING ME AGAIN, i might get a call frm Waterkloof primary school stating that they will start to teach Maths in Afrikaans and my daughter has to leave...

Africa 4 Africans on November 18, 2009, 2:53 pm
In other words it is YOUR chip on the shoulder, YOUR inability to trust, YOUR insecurity.... Cut your nose off to spite you face, and shows any comment holds no water as you are baised regardsless of facts

Yengwayo: The difference is, I have no 'political scores' to settle. I just want a prosperous, non-racial South Africa. You have ulterior motives when you speak of 'democracy', and 'corruption'. The quicker you fade away into history, the quicker your son and I, can build OUR country.

A4A: What you want, is apartheid with another name. All your ideologies, your 'views' on corruption and 'democracy', is a carbon copy of apartheid ideologies. And the ONLY thing I can draw from your 'answer' is that you support corruption and 'political scores' to settle.

Counter revolutionaries. Both of you.

sinudeity and Rob: Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

if apartheid worked for you, why cant it work for me and my kidz. then after we are even, then we can call the likes of prof. Jansen, Desmond ''nothing can pass me''Tutu, then we can talk reconcilation...is that so hard?

Sinudeity,

You are the perfect poster boy for a racist demagogue......

We should never allow white people to rule again unless of course they kill us all which they failed first time around (but succeeded in America and Australia). The fact that whites like Sunidiety and Colin even want to equate Black Mans suffering to the white mans, is revolting. As the Zulu King Shaka had warned "The first white man to arrive at this land will be the last day you have your land" Indeed he was correct. How can we not be concerned? We never went to Europe to enslave white people. We never stole their culture. We never forced them to worship our God. Why should our struggle be equated to theirs. If you go to China, you know you cannot disrespect the Chines as they're indigenous people of that land. Why is it different in South Africa?

A4A: Because if apartheid, in any form, returns again, regardless if perpetuated by a black or a white government, THERE WILL BE NO SOUTH AFRICAN LEFT.

Personally, I would rather die, then let it happen again. And by speaking out against corruption, whether by a black or a white man, Im making my country awesome.

You are merely blocking progress. If you are not going to help me fight corruption, then I ask you kindly, get out of my way.

Proudly_South African: And you are the perfect poster boy of a Republican Bush supporter.

You believe the 'Weapons of mass destruction" lie.

if you also not going to help us get our land back and everything that has been stolen from us, we kindly ask you to leave the country!

A4A: Have you heard of the billions that were stolen from the landbank? Corrupt individuals, within the landbank, stole money, meant to procure land for the people on the ground.

ONE of the reasons, why we have to fight corruption, and not support it.

Can you not see it. By supporting corrupt government officials, you are actually depriving yourself, and everyone else.

Help me, help you, help us all.

Africa 4 Africans on November 18, 2009, 3:19 pm
You are making assumptions, you do not know me and assumptions are the mother of all.... Eye for an eye, once again it is you that is wrong with S.A society....You are repeating history, knowing the results. What is the definition of stupidity, repeating a process over and over agian and expecting a differnet outcome

Yes Freedom - speaking of killing, your brother Shaka did his fair share of that as he plundered the land, subjugating all around him.

It was one of his personal pleasures and he was a specialist. Not to mention the terror he unleashed at the death of his mother. He was real Gandhi for sure.

Africa 4 Africans on November 18, 2009, 3:44 pm
What was stolen from you, you where never driven off your land, you bartered. Same as those cheifs who sold you into slavery

Nice posts Sinudeity - I agree with you 100%

As for the LandBank scandal - reminds me of the bumper sticker on the govt. official's LandRover - " I didn't join the struggle to be poor"

Gum Rol,

Another useless DA sheep......Nxxx!

a change from the ANC Bull!

thought this was about Pikoli and Selebi but it looks like racism is the issue in the comment section. just a thought why dont we start a blog where we can discuss race and leave this sectin for people who have to comment about the story at hand.

By the way for someone to be corrupt there should be a corrupter, why is it that we dont seem to go after these people too? Agglioti corrupts Selebi makes money off him Pikoli calls him up and says sell Selebi out will ignore the fact that without your money/bribes Selebi might have been a clean guy.. weird really

Clayton Majona, re: your second paragraph: what you are describing is what is known as Entrapment in the US, which is illegal in that country.

Clayton Majona on November 18, 2009, 4:16 pm
Thats like saying the rape victim asked for it. When you walk past a sweet store, do you sneak a few sweets because the temptation is there?

As I said earlier, it sounds similar to the Sheik corruption trial. In this instance I would think the only one telling the truth MIGHT be the judge

The Moxter -
So poor naive, gullible Selibi was a victim of entrapment??!!

Shame on those very bad men !

If all you guys could take a break from this racist nonsense and just be people would it kill you? I have been following quiet a number of articles and it always boils down to race, why?

For your info, I am a Human Being first, then a Black Man second. I really do not know if the Prez is guilty of the accusations or not but fact is that they will always linger around his head. Why did he go out of his way to keep the matter from reaching trial? That is the big issue here which makes some of us doubt his "innocence" but then again the Prosecutor has withdrawn the charges so there must have been compelling reasons for that.

Please go to http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-11-13-ode-to-an-unimportant-man and read about this guy. 95% comments there are from White people who are really concerned about crime in this country and the article is by a Black Woman. Does this mean us Blacks are really not to be concerned about crime perpetrated by other Blacks? Is it really racist for a White Wo/Man to complain about crime? Does it not affect us all the same irrespective of coulour?

Today it is an Old White Woman tomorrow it is your Black Uncle and that has nothing to do with Race - it is just criminal and it should be looked at like that.

@Colin and other white supremacist. You can't stand the fact that a Black person can have an opinion and worse post it here! Well, it's a Black Man's Land, live with it.

Hey Freedom wena my brother. Watch your mouth. I am one of your 'garden boyz'. But i and my employers call me a 'gardener'. You pust just grow up and come right buti. You are a disgusting person. And let me tell you too that all tge people I work for are 'white' and they much nicer than you are. Much better South Africans. Hey.

Bravo Brother Vusi! The only one with courage and honesty. The only man among the lying and crying fairies.

Woza Vusi! We will see you back in office soon. And then all the crooks will tremble and fall. The Big Fat Machine Gunner among them. Truth will always wins over false and dirty mouths. That is fortunately guaranteed!

Ron Kribb its different my brother offering a bribe is illegal and taking it is illegal too. So why should one criminal be treated better than the other?

Majona: I feel the same. Why should someone get prison time, for stealing a cellphone worth R500, and politicians get a slap on the wrist for stealing millions?

Hands Off our leaders! Go and vote yours into office. As I have already said, we are perfectly capable of making our own decisions without your input. Use democratic processes to vote for your party to govern. But I don't expect you to understand this simple democratic practice as you have proved in this continent to be the most undemocratic race. We shall never give in to your attempted mental genocide. Proudly African, Kushite, Ethiopian, Ntu, Muntu!!

Freedom: More empty rhetoric. As a South African, they are my leaders too (I do not consider, incompetent and corrupt persons my leaders though). And as a tax paying voter, they MUST listen to me.

And there is NOTHING, you can do about it.

Amandla!

@Sinudeity- Then vote for your leader, who's stopping you? But don't try to poison our minds against our leaders, it simply will not work.

Freedom - strange you use democracy and Ethiopia almost in the same breath .. those 2 are mutually exclusive ..

A fine example Freedom ..well done ..

Freedom – it’s not about poisoning your mind at all – I would never want to do that.

I just wish you had an open mind to form a personal, informed opinion. Not to be driven by ANC “ wit gewaar” fear tactics – all your comments seem to be based in that mindless irrationality.

Colin- Ethiopia means land of the Blacks (in Greek). When Greek people first saw civilization they saw it from these guys and they called them Ethiopians. Informed? but you didn't know that. I will not bother explaining Kush and the rest. This is Black people’s history dating 6000 years ago and should be of no interest to you. In my postings here I have not mentioned ANC, I have mentioned being Black and damn proud of it. Way forward, go and vote for your party I will vote for mine (that's democracy). You have not heard me complain about Cape Town or even Europe because democratic processes were followed to install those governments. Now, allow me to enjoy being led by a legitimately elected Black president, please!

Freedom – don’t kid yourself . you have an over exalted view of your collective importance. Ethiopia roday is one of the most corrupt and ungovernable parts of the world and has no comparison to democracy as the ancient Greeks devised and envisaged.

Colin-Why are you not in Greece since they devised and envisaged everything? I'm sure you are one of those who came to Africa to bring light to darkeness, how noble? Or maybe you have lost your roots such that you don't belong anywhere? Now you want to discredit my sense of belonging. Well you can't.

to all the people who have been attacking A4A and freedom, please answer these question:

why is it that here in SA when something is done by a white person the first thing that whites will do is justify it e.g. ufs? why is it when racial incidence occure the last party on the scene is the DA, if they ever show up?

The fact is SA was built on race, therefore we must first deal with it before we can move to other issues. As long as race matters in SA, we will never be truly democratic, whites will vote for the DA and blacks will vote for the ANC. Ignoring, or wishing race away will not work, so lets deal with it.

Blacks have been accused of playing the race card, but we must also not forget how the whites also play the merit card, unfortunately there are some blacks who have bitten the plot and believe that persons should be appointed on merit only. Well, lets look at the recent appointment of Ms Marcus. Its interesting that many whites have not questioned her credentials, but when Tito was first appointed many used the merit card to try and discredit him. so just because someone cites the merit card does not make them less of a racist, it could actually be a veiled attack on the capability of blacks, which confirms that race still matters. So our concerns about the DA bringing back apartheid are valid, all you have to do is look at the WC, Zille couldnot find meritoriously competent blacks so she appointed whites. This is exactly what would happened nationaly if the DA can win, thank God they have shown us in WC, so i will not vote for her or the DA.This is the plain fact. This is the type of thing A4A & freedom are saying, hence though the points about corruption are valid, they seem insignificant. Until we see Zille marching on the streets against racist and racism, until we see zille taking racists whites to the courts because they have been acquited by their buddies who themselves are racist, we will continue voting for what the media which is white controlled potrays as a corrupt ANC.

Freedo - Strange, the apartheid government used that same argument against detractors.
I guess your political evolution has not progressed too far.

Don't let your consciousness blind you to your sense of relativity. Unbridled nationalism led to apartheid in the first place not to mention the NAZI Reich.

Mthuthuzeli - what drivel ..

South Africans are lost and will remain well and truly lost until all develop a sense of personal responsibility for their own lives. For example, we have a brother here who scoffs at work, and refers to 'garden boys' as though garedn work is contemtible.

This is the disease of South Africa. We are so sick in the head that we disparage real work. All we can think of is dreaming about lotteries, motorcars, other people's damned cellphones, money for nothing etc. And the blasted mafuts in Luthuki House are the Leaders of this Circus of Fools.

How utterly pathetic and contemptible it is to see so many brothers here who waste all their effort and energy in condemning the truth and blaming everyone else for the state of their miserable selves. It makes me fee very ashamed of people called South African.

One thing that seems to common with comments by A4A and Freedom and now you is that the ANC "wit gewaar" tactics are working well.
They are telling you “if you don’t vote for the ANC apartheid will come back” What rubbish and if you believe that you are truly brainwashed.
The main reason I will not vote ANC has nothing to do with race. It has to do with balance.
Democracy can only works if there is a strong opposition.
The ANC is just too big and the bitter irony is that SA is better served by a weakened ANC.

Colin, you keep on assuming that I'm ANC and I haven't said that. I have said I'm an African and very proud of it. Maybe your assumption is based on the fact that ANC remains the only Party that can realistically take the Black Man forward. Be that as it may I have not said I'm ANC. What I will not do is to vote for DA simply to reduce the power of the ANC, that's ridiculous! If the ANC can appeal to majority of voters, that's democracy. Do you expect them to aim for 30% of the votes? No just like any self-respecting student will aim for 80% and above so does the ANC, nothing wrong with that. In fact even the DA top leaders have joined the ANC including Tony Leon (though he will not tell you). Helen Zille will probably join them after her term as well. Now, I’m not interested much in party politics, my interest is the welfare of myself, my community and my people, what’s wrong with that?

Freedom - your last comments I agree with totally.

My frustration in this country is that i don’t see advance at the grassroots level. I don’t see real radical policy change in the area of health care; schooling facilities; housing. All I see is govt. graft, corruption and jobs for pals. The richer get richer and the poor are desperate. As for Tony Leon, being a diplomat is not being an ANC member just as every member of parliament is not a member of the ANC.

Freedom: Dont be fooled. Corruption within the government is FAR more than you think. Theres so much more corruption, that we dont even know of.

If you were proud to be black, and proud to be a South African, then why let corruption within the ANC slide?

It should be YOUR responsibility to force corrupt ANC politicians out. Not mine. Why do I do it?

Because I know, to empower each and every South African, to get service delivery on track, and to uplift the people on the ground, we need to 'shoot to kill' corruption.

Did you know, in China, corrupt politicians are executed?

Freedom it is a known fact that without a strong opposition the ruling party can do what ever pleases them. What is wrong with most South Africans? In the apartheid years the majority of whites swallowed the rubbish the Nationalists fed them and followed them blindly. Now it is the same situation with most of the black South Africans with regards to the ANC. It seems to me both the majority black and white are like sheap and very gullible and believe anything they are told. Sad but true