De Doorns quiet after xenophobic incident

Africa for Africans...hypocrisy abounds...!

Africans were taught well to distrust each other, remember the divide and rule philosophy. Guess who taught them!

I agree with both of you;Dylan,as an African,i some times think that we act like animals.Peter,yes long ago,some one taught us how to kill each other so he can keep his trone,but now that we have realize it that we have been used,why can't we stop?
i will conclud by saying that THE ENEMY NUMBER ONE OF THE AFRICAN,IS THE AFRICAN HIMSELF.WAKE UP AFRICA!!!!
Pitrock P.

Garayi: The communists?

In this case, we have a political situation, created by our leaders (SADC/ANC/ZANUPF), which is affecting our country.

Mugabe is the cause, of the influx of Zimbabwean immigrants.

This is not xenophobia......this is just poor South Africans defending their communities from illegal immigrants. Just so that the liberal idiots know....if u r living illegally in a country, that makes u a criminal. Xenophobia is just a word coined by the media. If Home Affairs cant control illegals in SA, then people should kill them on the streets.

It is unrealistic to expect 3500 foreigners to fit into a town of 10000 highly reliant on seasonal farm work without this trouble breaking out. Over 50% of the locals are unemployed and the per annum median income is under R10000. Considering the town is on the edge of the Karoo scratching an existence from the soil is always going to be marginal. I can only imagine the feeling of despair and panic the locals must feel when they are passed over by the farmer in favour of the foreigners. Expect more trouble.

Khalsa Singh: "If Home Affairs cant control illegals in SA, then people should kill them on the streets."

How about instead: "If Home Affairs cant control illegals in SA, then the minister must be held accountable for his department not doing its job, and the ANC leadership should be held accountable for their tacit support of Mugabe's tyranny".

When opposition parties point out the shortcomings and incompetencies of the ANC government (according to their duty as opposition), and insist on accountability, then they are often labelled as 'racist' or 'unpatriotic'. Criticizing the ANC is seen as an act of treason.

I can understand the frustration that poor, unemployed South Africans face when their scarce jobs are threatened by illegal immigrants. But those immigrants are also in a struggle for survival.

If the South African government had been firmer from the start about what was unfolding in Zimbabwe, and helped the legitimate democratic forces to take control, then Zimbabweans wouldn't be fleeing and South Africans wouldn't be regarding them as a threat to their jobs.

So now it's not only Zimbabweans feeling the consequences, but poor working-class South Africans too.

I just hope they can control their frustrations and vent their anger at the government rather than on defenceless, desperate Zimbabweans.

Khalsa Singh

You from india? Should we kill you too?

Bleeding Muppet,

You are a bloody moron! This has got nothing to do with the ANC. On the contrary the poor Prez is always busy running around, trying to sort out the mess that the West created in the first place. Zim is a sovereign country, and besides diplomatic channels there is nothing that can be done. Unlike other rogue states SA will not invade any country.

Stick to the topic and stop feeding the public the media created mumbo jumbo......

Bleeding Muppet : Right on brother. I hate all this kill speech - its just a cover for Politicians not doing their jobs properly. Like the latest solution to crime - shoot to kill. No mention of job creation, boosting our legal system that sees countless cases waiting for years before getting a trial date. Like you say, the current mess with Zenophobic violence is a direct result of a soft stance on Mugabe together with home affairs not doing its job.

Can only agree with Bleeding Muppet. Most of Africa's problems actually stem from the ARROGANCE OF IGNORANCE!
The failures at Eskom,Transnet,Telcom,SAA,Landbank,Correctional Services,Dpt.of Health-HIV Aids,Police are only one example.Home Affairs is the other,because it is directly linked to the Passport and I.D.book scams,as well as unchecked immigration from Zimbabwe and other destitute states.Failed Departemental policies,corruption,cronyism,incompetence and indolence are the likely causes of xenophobia,the consequences of which will haunt this country for many years to come. The architects of this debacle,Mugabe and Mbeki should be brought before a Human Rights Tribunal.

@Proudly South African, if you knew what a moron is, you would realise how much of one you are for always thoughtlessly jumping to the defence of the ANC {also a bunch of Morons} when they are almost always blatantly wrong... if wishes were horses, i'd put a loaded gun in your hand and hope you pick out Khalsa Singh from the mob attacking foreign nationals at De Doorns and shoot to kill. What a hypocrite this KS, certainly deserves to be shot as moloko says...

Proudly_South African: 'The mess that the west created' - thats being perpetuated by mad bob. You might not realise this, but bob actually lost the last elections. Why is he still president? Why settle for a power sharing government, when zanupf LOST?

If you back quiet diplomacy, and bob as Zim's president, then you'd better leave the foreigners alone. As your inaction, forced starving and persecuted Zimbabweans to flee their home country.

With that said, xenophobia is simply another word for racism.

@ Moloko - I am a South African, and am therefore entitled to defend my country. Unpatriotic people like u should be shot together with illegals.


Blleding Muppet....u r asking for acccountability from Home Affairs and the ANC. Do u realise that this is impossible. All the things u proposed are unrealistic. Sure, if poor idiotic South Afrcians knew any better they would not vote ANC, but sure , come the next elections they will vote the same incompetent govt. in. What these idiots can do effectively, is mob justice.....and that is the best deterrent for ridding SA of illegals. If there are problems in Zim and other countries, then its their fukcing problem, not ours.

Sinudeity,

You need to stop this intellectual laziness - NO ONE WON THE ZIM ELECTIONS. The Constitution of Zim stipulates that the winner should pass te 50% threshold which no one achieved. This necessitated a run-off, which as well know Zanu PF competed alone and obviously won. The international community did not recognise these, hence the GNU that was a compromise...........

SADC is intervening currently, and the GNU is functioning despite the tension caused by that house nig*ger Tsvangirai. There is no booldbath in Zim, and the Zimbabweans are at liberty to go home.

Stop with your flippin lies, they only expose your single digit IQ. You are the one single white South African who is raising all the racial tempeartures on this forum (with the exception of bullshit*ers like Moloko and other racial fundamentalists).

Just grow the fu*k up!!!!

@Sinudeity, you're spot on. I infact think the last time Bob fairly won an election was in the early 90's. Since then, between rigging, violence & intimidation and shifting of goal posts every other election has been stolen. Pay no attention to PSA, empty vessels ............ noise... and as for Khalsa Singh, you are what Dylan Goodwin was referring to when he said hypocrisy abounds. Always quick to make subjective statements... totally agree with Moloko.

Zim land reform to blame?
by Master P
2009-11-18 13:00

Robert Mugabe is arguably one of the most spoken about African statesman, unfortunately not for the best of deeds. This is a highly educated individual and arguably one of the most educated presidents Africa has ever had. Yet, many of his people have fled the country for greener pastures at the southern border of Zimbabwe for fear of starving to death if not being persecuted by Zanu-PF war veterans.

The situation in Zimbabwe is very complex, thereby making it very difficult to find an apt solution to the country entangled in dire straits. Many would like to believe that the problems in Zimbabwe are solely due to a sheer lack of leadership and widespread corruption by Mugabe and his cronies who are in government, however, whilst that might be partly correct, I think it is important that one drills down to the true nature of the root causes of problems in this once well run and fertile African state.

The problems in Zimbabwe dates back to 1980 during negotiations between the British and the Zimbabweans in Lancaster house. One of the hottest issues under discussion during those negotiations was the “land issue”. Britain had agreed to make sure that ultimately black Zimbabweans will be given back their land in a systematic approach – pretty much similar to the “willing buyer, willing seller” principle adopted in South Africa. Britain had promised to financially assist black Zimbabweans who will be willing to own and run farms in Zimbabwe.

Ten years down the line, the land in Zimbabwe was still yet to be in the hands of black Zimbabweans, with most of these blacks battling to find finance to buy exorbitantly priced farms in their motherland. It was only after 20 years that Mugabe and his cronies decided to embark on what many would agree occasioned the problems that we’re currently witnessing in Zimbabwe. The war vets embarked on the well canvassed farm invasions and we all know the story around this.

This, like many other people, I agree was a political error that Mugabe and Zanu-PF leadership did as most of those who expropriated those farms did not possess the necessary skills nor the wherewithal to make the farms productive and profitable, however, there are questions that are yet to be answered here. Had it not been for these farm invasions, would Zimbabwe have been in a better state now? Had this been a black on black farm invasion, would Britain and the US still find it imperative to impose sanctions on Zimbabwe?

The latter question is borne out of a contrast of farm invasions to what Mugabe and his Zanu-PF supporters did back in the 80s during the much widely publicized operation dubbed “Operation Gukurahundi”. This was when Joshua Nkomo’s supporters in Matabeleland were butchered by Zanu-PF supporters. Very little was done to act against this brutality by the British and the Americans. There were no sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe, there were still fairly good relations between Zimbabwe and Britain/US and the only difference between then and the 2000 farm invasions is that the people who were killed during Operation Gukurahundi were blacks as opposed to the farm invasions where white farmers were being subjected to brutality.

Who is to blame?

Mugabe often blames Britain and US on any given opportunity. He has always blamed them to an extent many people find it very boring that they have to listen to his Britain and US bashing. Both the foreign and local media often portray this old man as some corrupt and bitter stupid old man. Bitter and old I agree, but is he really stupid?

Are the British and Americans really NOT partly to blame for the situation in Zimbabwe? The British reneged on the promises they made to Mugabe and black Zimbabweans regarding the land issue in 1980 and I like many others who care about Africa would attest to the fact that land is very key to economical development in Africa.

Over and above the economic factor of the land issue is the ancestry element which is pretty sacred in most African cultures – the place where our forefathers have been buried is regarded as an untouchable and sacred place.

Above all, Africa is extremely fertile and it is blessed with so many natural resources such that it is very difficult to ignore the land issue. Mugabe might have went about it wrong in embarking on the farm invasions but it is my considered view that the British are not squeaky clean on this matter and they are not genuine about many things regarding Zimbabwe. They talk left and walk right – they reckon Democracy should be the sole determinant of leadership in any given state and yet they make it very clear that they will only remove sanctions and offer economic support to Zimbabwe if Mugabe has vacated the presidential seat.

While we agree that Mugabe is no angel, should they rather not support the idea of a democratically elected leadership as averse to specifically asking Mugabe’s removal? What about what the people of Zimbabwe want?

Mugabe has done some unsavoury things in Zimbabwe but I would be very cautious of regarding him as a stupid old man. Britain is equally to blame for the crisis in Zimbabwe.

@PSA, The same old West-bashing arguments. Is Africa ever going to take some responsibility for the wars and famine ravaging the continent. You do realise that Africa was't the only place colonised by the Europeans. But while other countries seem to have moved on, Africans are still feeling sorry for themselves.

And what about countries in Africa that weren't colonised? If the West and colonialism are to blame for Africa's current state, then these un-colonised countries should be beacons of hope and prosperity! But alas...

The fact that Zim is a sovereign country has nothing to do with the issues at hand. The lives of the poor Zim people are being ruined by that hideous man and I expect our government to speak out against the ZanuPF, just as I expect them to speak out against any injustice anywhere in the world.

Our government has to take the blame - it is there responsibility to keep us citizens save. As Bleeding Muppet says, they dealt with this whole Zim issue very poorly and xenophobic attacks like these is the result.

Proudly_South African: 'house ******* Tsvangirai' - I cringe each time you say that PSA, please stop.

If everything is so awesome in Zim, why are we chasing Zimbabweans out of their homes in South Africa? Why are so many foreigners in our country, taking our jobs? Is it because of Mugabe, or because of our sunny weather?

What about the 2nd round of elections? You fail to mention how MDC-T supporters houses were demolished. How opposition leaders were arrested. How the MDC-T headquarters were raided. No mention of torture.

PS proudly, whenever you disagree with something I say, I know Im on the right track.

Amandla!

Sinudeity, you arguments are stale and a waste of time....

Let me deal with the two stupid boersenutjies, Shoot to Kill and Concerned Citizen........

I have said this before and for the benefit of the dunderheaded white compatriots, I am saying this again........we cannot meekly accept being lectured by today's democrats who yesterday's oppressors with blood on their hands...........

You are just party madarins of the DA who cannot even advance any intelligent debates in an open forum. All that you know (having supported apartheid genocide for decades - except for Sinudeity wo sound like he was born in the 80's) is to act this nauseating hypocrisy when your language is actually couched to insinuate that the ANC government is corrupt and to attack black leadership.

We will fight you until you go back to wherever you come from. The white private sector is the one that is contaminating the moral and social fabric of the society, and instead of coming up with construtive suggestion or reprimanding the corrupt white establishment - you want to shift the blame - go to hell you are clueless with what is happening in this country.

If it was not because of the corrupt and criminal apartheid government (of which you are unapologetic beneficiaries) which made a black man destitute, illiterate and wretched - our black brothers and sisters will not be fighting foreigners to go and toil in a racist farmer's land.........

You are not challenging my assertions, just being dismissive to hide your single digit IQ........

If there were no whites in Africa (especially here were they even had the audacity to introduce apartheid), Africa would be such a peaceful continent........your punishment is awaiting you in heaven!

@Khalsa Singh and Proudly_South African
Why so quick to personally attack someone instead of there statement, are your debate skills that weak. so much of swearing.

I smell a couple of Internet trolls.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm

Proudly_South African: I actually believe the corruption in government, is rotting down to the private sector, to the police, and down and down to every aspect of South Africa.

I say again, you chase Zimbabweans out of South Africa, but you support Mugabe. Can you not see the conundrum?

PSA, what a joke you are...

The money quote 'Britain is EQUALLY to blame for the crisis in Zimbabwe'. But you fail to read Mugabe's part in this equasion hey PSA (moron).

If we take all the displaced, killed, tortured and raped people at the hands of Brittain, Mugabe and Zanu PF and devide that number by two, then Mugabe still deserve to be hanged, scalped, whipped and decapitated in freedom square!

Then you say '...If there were no whites in Africa it would be such a peaceful continent...'

You mean as peaceful as Sudan, the Hutu and Tutsis, Du Noon Township, Swelile, as peaceful as the ANC's meeting in Lusikisiki. moron!!

'... We will fight you until you go back to wherever you come from...'

Another idiotic statement. Traced far enough back, the entire mankind is from africa. Does you r comment mean the entire 6 billion people on earth should return to Africa?? F*in idiotic i tell you!!!

'...our black brothers and sisters will not be fighting foreigners to go and toil in a racist farmer's land...'

You refer to the two sisters that is raped every minute in south africa, you refer to the 24 brothers that attack a bakery on a sunday morning, you refer to the looting, raping and muder of farmers which is the sole highest employer in south africa.

Fine representative of the ANC impregnated mind you are.

Gobbledegook that does not warrant any dignified response. Strong on rhetoric but weak on logic........racist demagogue!!! DA sheep!!!

Thought so.... Idiot!

PSA, you know, you really don’t need to insult people and call them names in order to have a debate.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve benefited from the sins of my fathers. I was brought up in a good home and got a good education. And it is an abomination that some people didn’t get to experience this just because of the colour of their skin.

I’ve never been a racist and I’ve never supported the Apartheid government.

I am astounded by your unapologetic and profound racism towards white people. My family has been in this country for over 300 years and through this time they suffered just like your people suffered, were oppressed like your people, and they made some horrendously bad choices. But does that mean that I’m now a second class citizen? That somehow I’m now less than you just because of the colour of my skin? Do you really want to do others what has been done to you – to inflict the same inhumanity on others? And to be hated the way the Apartheid leaders were hated by you?

I suggest you take a very long look at yourself, because this great country is home to many people of many colours and many races. I suggest you get used to it.

So the looting, raping and killing of foreigners is OK by you PSA?

The ANC was a great liberator, but is a shocking governor.

We deserve better.

PSA, With the Western Cape shouldn't all the people other than those of SAN heritage leave? After all they were the original inhabitants of the land. So from the way you and your like minded think, both the whites and people of colour that have no SAN heritage must leave with the Zim people. From the cr_p that spews from you, the coloured people should chase every body else out of the Western Cape as they are the only ones who truely can claim a right to the land. But naturally you will disagree as you are biased and only apply your opinion as far as whites are concerned. You make me sick you are a repulsive bigot

Every thing that black people do is blamed on the white settlers. Now I would like to set this record straight with the following, for which no blame can be laid to any other but the black people them selves. "A dramatic new chapter in the Shaka's story, the final one, began in 1827, when his mother Nandi died. Grief stricken to the point of mental derangement, he embarked on an orgy of destruction. All pregnant women were put to death, together with their husbands, all milch cows were slaughtered so that, even the calves might know what it was to lose a mother. Altogether 7000 Zulu's died in these days of bloodshed." PSA and like minded out there I wait with bated breath to see your reply to this. Accept the fact that Africa has and still is a continent dripping with blood and yes outside interference in the past 100 years has played a part in it, but to blame this for all the problems is absurd. You choose what you like so far as the past and the present is concerned, leaving out what you do not like. Unlike many of the writers in this column who give an unbiased opinion, by analysing all the facts, before drawing their conclusion on the matter. By the way if Mogabe is clever for letting his people suffer the way they are, all I can say is you have a serious problem and need therepy.

Government should send the police force/army to protect the people, including Zim foreigners and now farmers, from these barbaric acts of ANC provoked violence in De Doorns.