Malema, Cronin scrap over mine nationalisation

What a confused bunch of communists !

"clothed in quasi-Marxist rhetoric, with potential to make a sorry and sad reflection of the true character of the SACP's ideological steadfastness".

Julius said this? I doubt it. He wouldn't know what "quasi-Marxist rhetoric", and "ideological steadfastness" meant even if it was written in Pedi.

Thanks be too the all mighty spokesman.

A very good and well informed friend, told me after the 1994 elections: We will be governed by the “doves”, (Mandelas etc) for some time. Then the “falcons” (radicals) will take over. The tripartite alliance, ANC, Communists and Cosatu, will eventually split up because of internal factions and fighting. This has been happening for quite some time now. The Cronin Malema discourse, a good example. Personally I am of the opinion that should the alliance split up, we might have a better chance in getting a new government (Am I day dreaming ?)

I think Julius is correct in that the SACP and COSATU want's everybody to follow after their hot-wash nonsense. Who the hell do they think they are to say the ANCYL did not attend their political school to discuss nationalisation? We can understand the tenets of the Freedom Charter perhaps better than they can because they first have to refer to marx and lenin to interpret our decisions. One moment they are for the poor and the other they are weeping for Godsell... Hypocrites

I notice the race card pulled again

Time for change at the ANCYL and a quarter peri-peri chicken with chips and a cooldrink at Nando's >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Aq042KPSg

LOL!

Malema as to pull the race card in every debate because he doesn't have the intelligence to address the arguments themselves.

Still, all these silly communists debating the nationalisation of this countries greatest asset is nothing more than a silly sideshow. Every other institution which this government runs, has descended into chaos, theres no way they will let that happen to the mines.

Poor Julias, does he not see that every time he plays the race card he is making himslef look more and more like he is South Africa's biggest racist.

It was really bad for Cronin to argue like uneducated person, In his document he does not tackle the issue on the table but the man Malema, Its just petty that in whatever situation Malema find himself in, he will always be the guilty person. To suggest that ANCYL are obsessed with bling for the whole matter was just childish of Cronin and he should just apologies. I personally didn't expect that from him

To play the race card against someone like Cronin is pure idiocy. Cronin's masterful and sensible contribution to the debate puts Malema's understanding of the issues to shame. Sensing the intellectual chasm between the ANCYL's position and Cronin's piece, SA's paragon of populist political pandering responds with insults. Such a child!

Kwena .. Malema put the issue on the table .. I doubt whether Cronin could attack the table !!

And they just have to tell us exactly what SACP stand for. if they themselves cant support this motion, they have been crying about privatization of sate companies, what actually do they want? or they are bitter because this motion was not coming from them? they where supposed to push for socialism and be ant-capitalism but they are doing nothing just being parasites in this tripartite alliance

While these two bicker and squabble, has anyone looked back historically and found an overwhelming majority of successful companies or industries who have been 'Nationalised'?
Nationalisation is not going to solve anything. Gentle guidance of the dispersion of profits, and the manipulation of the greedy would bear far more fruit than simply 'taking over' and running it into the ground.
I for one would not invest in a government-run concern. They are simply not geared towards growth and development, but rather plunder and exploitation for the moment.

Was it not Blade(SACP leader)who also monopolised, sorry bought, one of those BIG cars ??

Jeremy, Julius, The Wall was taken down 20 years ago. "Comrade" is no longer a fashionable title in circles that matter. Ideologies are for failed states ~ get with it !

If Malema truly respected the nature of political discourse, and was an honest politician, he would not have to stoop so low as to not respond to the actual issue, and instead uses rather dubious ad hominem arguments in order to disguise the fact that he is a complete ignoramous and has nothing worthwhile to say on the issue. With Malema not understanding the very change that he is pushing for we are in deep trouble if he gains much more power. Yet still the media is feeding Malema more power every day by constantly airing every asinine comment that he makes. Unfortunately it seems that as in this country any publicity is good publicity (Zuma being a prime example) then the M&G is running Malema's political campaign for him.

Kwena: SACP stands for: Shame, Another Confused Person. “As a communist, I really like the good life under a democracy (not necessarily ours). I have my own fancy car, house. I can go where I want. I have press freedom, and I am not guilty, till the opposite is proofed. If I go to jail I can strike and demand my human rights . Definitly much better than Siberia. It is also good not to nationalise state entities. Under private ownership, I do not have to work (like in the salt mines, back home). I can only benefit from the taxes earned by these private companies.

Communism died a slow dead since 1986 (Gobachev: perestroika)

@Kwena - agreed. No need for that from Cronin. Totally childish.
I think it is time for COSATU to step out of the alliance and form a Labour Party. SACP can join them if they wish. A South African Labour Party, with its primary constituency being the working class black majority, could get 20% or more of the vote. They could make voting alliances with the DA as a balance to ANC power - especially on issues on which capital and labour have the same interests, like health, crime and education. The ANC may also need to ally with one of these parties on certain issues, and will thus need to make concessions on others. Once the ANC is forced by this situation to become accountable they may start to govern responsibly and in the best interests of all South Africans, rather than an elite few.
Nationalisation of certain assets could make sense, but I would stay away from the mines! The current owners will stagger the process so it starts with gold - the govt pays them out just as the gold fields dry up. There will be a long series of delays over platinum, with the govt paying up just as the platinum deposits are exhausted, and so on. Coal and steel? Maybe...

Hi Jeremy
How foolish can you be? When Malema called for a debate on Nationalisation,what he asked for was " agreement with him and ANCYL" because he stated clearly that those who opposed him or the issue of Nationalisation WOULD NOT be elected into office come the next ANC election.Secondly,you are white so you are neither African nor S African and have no business debating African Minerals , that's for the sole benefit of " people who look like Malema -Pedi". Isn't it time that ALL of us realised this?

Malema doesnt debate.

He tries to make you feel like a 'slave to the white man', by disagreeing with him. He uses racism as his tool.

- He said he did "not need the permission of white political messiahs to think"
- "It is sad that previously, those who look like us were considered intellectually inferior by the white supremacists

Trying to guilt South Africa to follow his views, with 'wit gevaar' rhetoric.

I think the gift of a dictionary and possibly a book on the 'rise and fall of empires' would be a good Xmas present for Minime. If he can't read, then it should be handed over to his speech writer who could also do with some help. Perhaps a book on 'Basic Essential Economics' could be beneficial.

Nationalisation can also be politics of anger, greed and revenge.

Hey,get real. There will, over the next 10 years be mass nationalization. Not because it is the right thing to do, but if the ANC want to hold on to any semblance of power they are going have to. Malema is gungho about it because he will be one of the recipients of its largesse. He does not give a flyingfcuk for the "people" this is about control, status and greed. He knows full well that it will make him, as well as a whole bunch of other "well placed" individuals enormously wealthy. No one in thier right mind would ever seriously consider nationalization unless they were going to cream it big. Just take a look at every single state run business in SA at the moment for a quick answer to this.

Malema seems to always take pot shots at white people.I am totally convinced that whatever Malema vomits all the time,he has an undivided support and blessing of Zuma.




Zuma is conflicted,he is aware and how much Malema's diatribes propelled him to his position.


Malema is a total disgrace and the more he is let to go,he will cause some serious damage to the reputation of this country.

Any further discussion or consideration of Malema's outbursts only serve to further inflate his already swollen ego and frankly it's just a waste of time and kilobytes.

M&G and others give this failed wood worker too much coverage.

Time for some REAL news please!!!

"I suspect that comrade Malema and others are missing this bigger systemic picture because when they speak of mineral beneficiation they are thinking of bling ... sorry, jewellery,"
Is this what m&g calls an analysis?
This paternalistic behavior the like of J.Cronin have when interacting with us must come to an end. If he and his kin feel we are "liars, lazy, foul-smelling, diseased, corrupt, violent, amoral, sexually depraved, animalistic, savage and rapist", why don't they just go and leave us to our own device, whatever the outcome. Living with dignity even in poverty is still much better.

Just wondering...who do you think is Big Julie's speech writer;

'openly reactionary" and "quasi-Marxist rhetoric, with potential to make a sorry and sad reflection of the true character of the SACP's ideological steadfastness" are pretty big words for Big Julie.

I think it is instructive for 'us in the West' to read about Malema and Co., because we tend to meet thoughtful, intelligent, productive black people from Southern Africa on our home turf, and make the judgement by extension, that Africans are all like that.

And some of you are, but some of you, and the percentage is up for grabs, but I would wager that it is a higher number than is healthy, are like Big Julie, and Fungayi the 'Refugee" A2 Cellfarmer from Zim.

Only last week JZ asked his comrades to stop their public insults. And no one listens making him the most irrelevant President in the history of the ANC.

The Large Hadron Collider at it again.

Again Malema has confirmed that he doesn't have what it takes to be a politician, and that he is a racist.

I'm so tired of this little spoilt child I can scream!

Quite apart from the pathetic level of 'debate' between Malema and Cronin, could the latter please tell us what's so great about communism and Marxism? 1. It has NEVER worked. 2. If the big C is so great, how come millions of East Germans left their homes to move to the West and, after the Wall was built, continued - at the risk of their lives - to make it through to the West. A number were shot – simply for escaping East Germany and I don't recall ever hearing about anyone in the West risking their life to get through to East Germany for a new life. Communism is an utter failure and why anyone in this day and age still persists in trying to tell us that while all the other countries got it wrong, the SACP will get it right, beggars belief. And don’t think of mentioning China – apart from the typical communist state of being a one-party state, in their business and industry they are capitalist.

Its taking the Malemas and SA shorter to get to where Zimbabwe is coming from. Monkey see monkey do. Cant wait to see the long refugee lines out of SA! Cry the beloved country.

ha ha h, another drama

it's sad that so many of our Africans (so called Blacks)allow our thinking to be dictated by (so called)Whites. Our peoples opinions are now formed by the media. Whatever is said in the media is Gospel. It is possible still today to find an African who beleives that Apartheid was a good thing for us. Africans must realise that our agenda of empowerment will almost always nergate white interests and they will do all they can to guard their interests. Self preservation is a simple fact of life. Malema is unfortunately 1 of the last free thinking comrades who are not part of the "Matrix". Cde Malema we can not give up! Nationalisation should have happened a long time ago but better late than never. If we want to stop Africans clamouring for these useless BEE deals that are designed to look good only on paper but with no substance and these idiotic land redistribution programmes we must nationalise all this African Wealth.

Izzy, you must try to get over the victim mentality... everything that goes wrong is thanks to some dastardly 'white plot'. You're 'dictated' to... AIDS was a scheme dreamed up by white scientists to wipe out the black races... colonialism is the root of all evil that befell the continent... For God's sake, get a grip. Nationalisation has NEVER worked, and if you or anyone else thinks that you'll get to share in the wealth, forget it. As is the case now, only those connected with the ANC higher echelons will benefit. Why do you think you have a group of obscenely rich party-connected individuals and a mass of people still living in grinding poverty? Do you think for a second that under nationalisation the luxury German limos with extras costing the same as three or four houses will be a thing of the past? Think again.

Please help. What does the "Nationalization" of mines mean?
The mine that I work for is wholly owned in by British people. What will government do when they 'nationalize' it?

Eskom is owned by the government, isn't it? If the mine that I work for gets run like Eskom, it wouldn't survive a year. Mines are very sensitive to production costs, exchange rate, product demand; and judging by the way goverment officials like Nathi, Blade, Nyanda have been on a shopping spree, you wouldn't want those next to a valuable assest like a mine.
Would you?

Nationalising SA mines would be a disaster. You would see an exodus of most intelligent management. There has never been any nationalised company, anywhere, ever, that was considered to be well run- that's why countries that have had nationalised companies for a long time ultimately privatise them to fix their management and profitability problems. Nationalising SA mines would destroy shareholder value- ie: destroy hard won wealth for many. Yes, it would create more jobs, which for those who got them, would seem great, but nationalised companies always create way more positions than they really need, to make room for everyones brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, nieces- get the picture? In short, what you wind up with is an unprofitable behemoth of a company that ulitimately can't pay it's bills and maintain it's capital infrastructure. In the end what you'll have is abandoned mines, and literally everyone out of work. Let the western, capitalist way of doing business prevail- that, and a big push on education are the only way forward for South Africa as a nation. We want a Rand that's 7 or 8 to the dollar, not 50 or worse!

Interesting racial dichotomy.Look at these comments,this clearly makes me wonder wether the so-called rainbow nation ever existed.People with unafrican surnames are quick to label stupid,idiot to anyone they disagree with. Africans talk about lack of respect.None of them and whatsoever tried to tackle the issue ANCYL is raising rather than crushing an individual.

Jeremy could have fought for liberation but that does not grant him powers nor more rights than Julius Malema.Yes the response from Malema is appropriate for personal attack by Jeremy.Nobody blamed the educated Jeremy for personalizing the so called nationalization debate.Your obsession with Malema and hatred of him does not make your the wise and educated.Pedi is a very important language to us so do not try to ridicule it.

wht's happening currently between the ANCYL and SACP,seems to reflects a sense of no respect from one party to the other,as when a party is invited to engage in talks and doesn't avail it's candidates,unless otherwise the invite didn't show sense of genuine,bt the fact of the matter is a party shouldn't allow individuals to disrupt a progessive national conference as such,so in anyway when a child decide to take his/her own decision,therefore it's important that the parents guide the child as to where is the direction if in the wrong direction, unless the child was victimised to an extent of the parent abusing his/her rights to be heard.then i can in a nutshell say it's good we nationalise but may be the direction taken it's not trust worthy and may interest individuals as an outcome.it seems we only hear individuals but rather than a number of parties behind the national party as they are allied to share & engage suxch decisions in all manners involving evenj the society to speak their views.