Bull-killing ritual to be debated in Durban

This ritual is barbaric and does not belong in a 'modern' society. To justify it on the grounds that it is tradition is tripe. In that case, because the forefathers didn't have cars, nor should their successors today. The forefathers would have died from whatever diseases, that are now treatable - so their successors should therefore not be treated, because their forefathers weren't. Often the less the need for a 'tradition' the more difficult it is to get rid of it. This sort of thing is portrayed around the world as evidence that Africa is a primitive, uncivilised continent. Is that how it's supporters want to be regarded?

I can not believe this! the next thing they will tell us not to slaughter in our homes at all. I believe these guys are just seeking for attention.

Most Black guys are villains and that so called tradition is supposedly handed down by the uncles to the younger generation....I can see how it makes sense for them to be so vilfied, they still have 1 foot in the bush even Sandton has bushes.....

"This ritual is barbaric and does not belong in a 'modern' society". Rod, the word barbaric is very subjective. Instead of saying Africa is an "uncivilised continent", I see it as being different which is why the Zulu Kingdom and the whole KZN is able to attract so many tourists. Now we can't have tourists dictating what they want to see being practiced and what should be stopped.

To UmAfrica, they are already telling not to slaughter in the surburbs because, according to them, it is just too "inhumane"!!!

Ukweshwama Festival (what really happens during this festival)

The young men are taken inside a sacred place in a kraal and incense is burned. A herd of cattle is brought in and the king points out the sacrificial bull, which is then caught by the young men. The bull is only slaughtered, after his tongue and eyes are ripped out and genitals are mutilated!

I have said it many times before: The vast differences in cultures, beliefs, rituals, faiths, food, clothing, roll models, music, philosophies, reference points etc are the reasons why it will be very difficult to have any reasonable reconciliation between ethnic groups, and more so black and white. Take any of the above differences and draw a comparison between groups it is millenniums apart. White people will be appalled, shocked, filled with horror and be in revolt to just think that this could be done to an animal, in such a brutal way and that this is part of a tradition or what ever. We live in the 21st century – which as generally accepted to be a civilised period in human history, far removed from the dark ages.

I agree with Mbali that barbarism is subjective. Unnecessary cruelty to animals is of course wrong, but I think it would be hypocritical for anyone but strict vegetarians to criticise.

@Rod Baker. This sort of thing is portrayed around the world as evidence that Africa is a primitive, uncivilised continent.

How does this differ from Bull run in Spain? is Spain part of primitive, uncivilised continent Africa?

Torturing an animal like this is inhumane and must not be tolerated. This practice should be banned forthright!

And to Mbali and UmAfrica, you should kill animals in urban areas because it is unsanitary.

Its a pity that in this day in life we still have people who look down at other people`s cultures. I have noted with interest that,black afrikan cultural practices have been a thorny issue to whites,indians,arabs and coloureds,in the continent in general and this country in particular.

In Afrika we have been at peace with our selves and our cultural practices,until the day total strangers set foot on Afrikan soil. A lot of effort and pholosiphies have been formulated with the intension of holding Black Afrikans sub-human bondage and thus loot their land,movable and immovable property.

In all that Afrikans never labled nor atacked these people`s cultures and/or kill and maim them to loot their ships. Instead hatred has been the reward of the love which Afrikans have given and continue to give todate.

With regard to the Ukweshwama and the sacrefice made,all those who are claiming moral high ground;there is one sad thing about them.They are totaly silence when a black human being shot because he look like a dog and a baboon,to them its totally a non issue.Away from that;a question i which they may answer with honesty without their heart skipping a bit is as follows. May they tell us which death has ever been without pain thus being acceptable,because any death comes with pain to the dying,let alone the love ones of the dying(human or animal.

The is a danger with these attacks to black afrikan cultures and the use of the courts as ends to the means. There will a defiance to the court rullings and black people will nomore have confidance in the justice courts,because in the majority of the rulings in the justice courts,black africans are the ones left with a bitter taste in thier tongues. We clearly dont with such a state in the continent and this country.

We shall have to await the outcome of the meeting of the parties involved in this matter and may respect to black afrikan culture be respected and be it left to the black afrikans to handle their issues the afrikan way.

UmAfrica, Mbali Ngwane.

It is not a case of whoever (whites/municipal regulations ?) it is to prohibit people to slaughter an animal at home. It is purely because of the health hazards such practises hold in for people and the surrounding area. Bacteria (deadly) can survive in a speckle of blood or faeces. How will you know if the animal itself, does not have a (deadly) disease. That is why there are abbatoirs and inspectors to verify, that slaughtered animals, conform to health standards and to be fit for human consumption. You guys can not be that ignorant.

Honestly, it does bother me somewhat when I witness a live killing of an animal, and over the years I have participated in many killings but I myself cannot kill anything except for a chicken, and even then I have to numb myself somewhat to its jerks and quivers. But there’s nothing I enjoy more than amantshontsho, its the prime meat that is roasted right after the killing, its only salted, and its juicy and soft and describing it already makes my mouth water.. …
Back to the rituals, people, this is Africa. The argument about us not riding cars because our forefather did not ride them (see above, Rod Baker on November 24, 2009, 2:01 pm )since we’re adamant to keep our rituals is belittling, racist and stupid. There’s no hate so great, than to try and dictate for other people how they should conduct and behave themselves. It is oppressive, because oppression is taking away from the people their capability to decide their fate or worse, deciding for those people. This is what, to this day, what white people wish to do for every nation and tribe and people. Because in themselves, they see the epitome of harmonious existence between beast and man. Aaarrgh!!!!
Thandanani Umlaw

@Andre, there are cultures that marry their own siblings..in our culture that is sick! but you dont see us parading and asking the court to stop such. Guys please leave us alone and let us live in African OUR continent with peace!

You can judge a peope by how they treat their animals - Ghandi

Do i have to say more.... it my just also explain the violence in africa

UmAfrica African would you like to be ripped apart?

Mark Ngwenyama on November 24, 2009, 3:35 pm

Your statement: They are totaly silence when a black human being shot because he look like a dog and a baboon,to them its totally a non issue.

Can we have your response to the recent insident where a (black) policeman shot a three year old. Constable S S Malaka, allegedly saw a pipe (PLEASE NOTE) pointed at him from the car and he thought it was a firearm and he fired in the direction of the pipe.

Accidents happen – we are all human beings

Those who see the criticism of this ritual as an attack on culture are misguided. Most of those making the criticisms have no problem with rituals and traditions that do not involve gratuitous pain being inflicted on another living being. So that is the problem here. If this ritual was adapted so that it did not involve gratuitous pain being inflicted then I assure you all complaints would cease. For instance, could they not slaughter it in a quicker manner, ie without "tying its penis in a knot". What purpose does that serve exactly? Sure, the slaughtering of cattle for use in supermarkets does involve a certain amount of pain being inflicted upon the animal, however the point here is that as little pain as possible is inflicted, ie it is not GRATUITOUS.

Firstly let me state that I am a vegaterian and eating what was a living mammal gives me the creeps. This however does not give me the right to condemn others who are meat eaters. I do not like thinking of the cruel way the bull is killed and cannot myself accept this as tradition but, if you have been brought up a with this tradition you will think differently to the way I do. For this reason one has to give a certain amount of latitude. On the other hand, slaughtering of animals in your back yard in the suburbs is unhealthy and the risk of disease not only to yourself but to others makes it definately a no! no!. This may be one of the contributing factors in diseases such as Cholera and others in some parts of our country.

UmAfrica African on November 24, 2009, 3:57 pm

There are as many beliefs and rituals as there are people in the world. I fully agree with you – to marry your siblings is appalling and regarded a taboo in basically all cultures. As far as I know this culture is not practiced in SA – so is not applicable to your statement: ………but you don’t see us parading and asking the court to stop such.

A fact is that there are people who believe, if you have intercourse with a virgin/baby, you will be cured of aids. There are people who believe, to raise your bed with a brick or two, evil will not be able to get hold of you. I am not being derogative or sarcastic, but you will probably understand, why people can not believe/understand why such absurdities are still around.

Just think what the animal has to go through just for culture

This really boils down to different cultures and how we view thing around. For instance our white brothers value animals so much that they even share a ride with the in the car, as a black man, that is appalling because we view things differently.

Furthermore, there's some kind of hypocrisy from the guys who are bringing this action against the Zulu King, have they brought any action against the Spaniards for their treatment of the bulls during the bull run? Have they brought any court action against all the zoos in the different countries for the continued imprisonment of animals?

To top it all, these guys have been invited to attend the ceremony and not base their action on eyewitness accounts because some of the things they are basing their action on has been disputed. Rather than advocating for humanely killing animals, no animal should die at all because killing is the same regardless

Why does ARA fight against other people's rights and cultures? They should go to Spain and stop the Bull fighting and all those other cultures by their fellow whites and we do not need White supremecists messiahs to dictate to us which culture is wrong and which we can and cannot practice. People flock to KZN to see these cultures and now some stupid ARA people think its wrong. Killing an animal does not have to be done in a nice way because the end result is the animal will be dead anyway-so if you shoot the bull, use Ukwehsana tactic, drown it in water etc the end result is it will be DEAD. The money they are wasting on this stupid and patronising campaign can be used in a better way by supporting the many poor children who go to bed hungry in KZN.

Those who argue that "what a culture allows is permissible" will end up contradicting themselves, unless they also argue that the honour killings of women, stoning adulterers to death while they are buried up to their waists in sand, and female genital mutilation, are also unacceptable. And CLEARLY no normal person would argue that. So to all who argue "this is Africa, don't interfere", I say to you "This is a democracy, and cultural rights have to respect the law." Cruelty to animals is illegal. I condemn ALL sadistic practices that deliberately cause harm and suffering to a sentient being. If the Zulu people want to live like they did in Shaka's time, why does the King drive a smart car? Cultures change --- that's why they are strong. In the Bible, they used to stone people for breaking the Sabbath. Should we do that now? As a Christian, can I kill my neighbour for picking up objects on a Sunday?

CRUELTY IS NOT TO BE TOLERATED IN ANY CIVILIZED SOCIETY. Is the Zulu tradition SO unstable that it will fall apart if young men are not allowed to torture an innocent animal? Surely not. And what about the effect on the young men? They will forever equate masculinity and violence. Perhaps it's not an accident that KZN has the highest rape stats in the country.

Kurauona - why don't you start by giving something for the poor children in KZN or do you already do this? I am hoping you do and if not, your concern for the children means nothing. Get your community to start collecting as action speaks louder than words. Ubuntu means nothing when one rides an expensive car and turns your head the other way because you have deep pockets and short arms.

OK, so I will start at the top and just go down.
UmAfrica African, if you want to live in a house where you slaughter your bull for super. you go right ahead.
Kevin James , I am on sides with you dude, except I would have been a tad more graphic. But hey that's just me. Mbali Ngwane on November 24, 2009, 2:45 pm , you have got it completely wrong. The tourists that come to Natal are not there to see you idiots kill a bull, they just can't believe that there is a place in SA that actually does what Andre explained. You know its like going to the zoo. Except people don't do that anymore. They are more into reality stuff. chris on November 24, 2009, 2:59 pm , don't speak shit, there is nothing subjective about this ar all, it either is or it isn't. UmAfrica African on November 24, 2009, 3:57 pm , what a doos. Of course there is something wrong with marrying direct family, but damn son, you don't see them jump on the back of thier sibling rip its toungue out, gouge it's eys and then still kick it in the balls. Ron Kribb on November 24, 2009, 4:07 pm , good question Ron. Actually I know a corrupy little Zulu boy, JZ, who wants to know why the crime in SA is so violent. I rest my case. Lee van Zyl on November 24, 2009, 4:29 pm , er Lee, Latitude is something the Gov does when you catch a buddy stealing R10 mil. It's not something that should be offered to an entire culture strolling around when things get a bit tough kicking bulls in the balls. Oh, and just so that you know, cholera, is caught when you drink from a river or tap that is full of shit. Something we here in SA are fast moving toward. If you don't believe me take a stroll to anyone of the nearest rivers to where you live and take a big gulp. Kurauone Zvaramba on November 24, 2009, 5:18 pm , you are correct, this too is quite a sight, however, I am not sure it is quite the same thing. It takes considerable skill to kill a raging bull with a clean direct thrust of a sword through the top of its neck. What Zulu wariors do to thier bull does not require much skill. It certainly does require a certain level of insanity though. Kurauone Zvaramba on November 24, 2009, 5:18 pm , damn dude, I can't believe you are allowed to walk around the streets on your own. Here is your question, As an animal, would you prefer to get shot in the head, or, your tongue ripped out, your eyes gouged out and then while you are rolling around the floor in shock and horror you were then kicked in the nuts by an entire impi?

Okay kids, here we go again.

First of all, this Ukweshwama ritual is as barbaric as hell for that one bull that must endure it, no question about that. Now, while this ARA attack on the ritual – which, evidently, is a Zulu cultural practise, brings to a wider audience this, it fails to accept that this is a cultural practise on one bull – albeit a barbaric practise. If anything, Zulu people should deal with their internal cultural affairs. They’ll also have to reach out and try educating a wider audience on the practise in question.

Now onto this “slaughter an animal at home.” This really is a problem with large livestock – like cattle. The real problem is Escherichia coli O157:H7 – a particularly virulent form of common E. coli. If you spill the shit, it contaminates everything - flowers/vegatables, pool, water table, etc. It would be really difficult to rid your kitchen of the bacteria. Out in the garden, you’d be screwed. I’m sure the Zulus performing the ritual are well versed in the dangers of getting crap on the enyama, so are probably careful handling the tripes, etc. They’re Royalty, so probably don’t slaughter in residential/suburban areas.

What ARA should do is turn its attention to the squalid attention that livestock live in in order to meet the demands of the modern world. These truly horrific conditions have led to such diseases as Swine Flue – H1N1 – in Mexico, outbreaks of virulent forms of the E. coli bacteria in the US, and Mad Cow Disease in the UK.

Animal Rights Africa (ARA) is crazy, ukweshwama ritual was there for many decades, why they have been silent since then and only becomes any issue now, these people only want to uplift their status and sell their profile over nothing.

one thing, they should understand, culture does not change with time because of values and traditional believes attached to it,we cannot claim that is the morden society and some cultures should exist or be perished.

Apologies on the incorrect disease comment in my previous piece. I know this is carried in water contaminated with excrement. I think I had a bout of ANC flu (Grab anything to prove a point can also be called hog wash). But Archie said it correctly, thanks Archie.
I heard this morning that this ritual was done in Shaka's time (40 years) and then abandoned until in the 1970 when it was reintroduced. I do not know how accurate this is, but if so then it is not a ritual that has been in place time memorial (centuries). It would seem this was a bloody thirsty ritual started by Shaka. Input please?

All I know the ritual was done in many years back or shaka's time and then abandoned and then reintroduced in 90s

Once again the white settlers want to force their hypocritical morality down the throat of the indigenous people of SA. This ritual has been done for decades even before the white rhieves set their foot on the soil of Africa. His majesty should reject their moans and complains and proceed with this ritual as planned. The black man cannot continuously be guided by the white man's concerns!

White people must leave our cultures and traditions alone.... I'm sick of you telling us shit all the time...

You call us kaffir...made us slaves...spent years and efforts eradicating our history, traditions and cultures, telling us their are uncivilized......Took our land, killed our great-grandfathers who stood up against you.....

You have been raving on about how worthless our leaders are, ever since we came into power although you still possess the wealth and our land (which is not enough for you)....

I'm sick of listening to your shit, so just go to hell...

By your tone Budah I would suggest that you do not read the comments in the MG. If your traditions are going to effect the health of others, then the sensible thing would be to not have that tradition. This may be a contributing factor to Africa been a disease infected continent. I respect others traditions or religeon as long as it does no harm to others. An example is;
'a virgin will cure aids' or 'human body parts made into a muti'. But I imagine you will disagree with me on this, not because you believe in it, but because you are driven by hate for those with a lighter skin. Correction on the enslavement old boy, No black South African were enslaved. The slaves brought by the Dutch to South Africa, would now have descendent in the coloured community and not the black people, so put that in your pipe and smoke it you moron. Anyway what sort of name is Budah Sterah?????

Sure this ARA attacks looks racist to any sane person - it appears to be just that, while hiding behind animal rights, thereby diminishing REAL animal rights efforts - despite it being true that it is quiet barbaric an act the ritual in quetion involving the chosen inkunzi.

Is it not possible for discussion/debate without racist undertones between umlungu and umuntu (-emnyama).

Do not hide behind racism people.

Let's support Bactaria, it is the only culture that most people have. Go ahead spread the germs.

Regrettable that race is brought into this debate. The history of cruel practices amongst white European tribes in ancient times are well documented. But all over the world different societies have fortunately also exerted influences on each other that have gradually brought along refinement of the human spirit amongst a broader spectrum of humanity. Torture is torture. The refined human spirit is disgusted by it and have to speak out against it. The people who are continuing this ritual are doing themselves and their offspring immense harm.If one appreciates beauty one cannot harbour torture.

Not so long ago, some people wrote that Africans are not proud of their cultures and so on, now this!. We live in a country where we have different cultures and traditions from both sides ( blacks and whites). We have to learn to accept and respect one another. It is not bad to express your fellings, but how you express your fellings is what is important. We should learn to understand each other for peace sake and focus on things that are fruitful. Beleive me, if the Zulus don't win this case this will lead to a disaster coz it's a sensitive issue.