Move to disbar Simelane

For those not in the know, the anc vision for the NPA is: we do what we want when we want to who we want how we want whenever we want. Any questions or complaints, fuck em. They only vote for us, they don’t tell us what to do.

Ian - that's the ANC's vision, period.

This could be extremely good news. Is it possible that SA's are beginning to get gat vol of the indiscriminate way our leaders just inflict inept, corrupt people on us time and again. I hope this move will give SA an opportunity to actually appoint somebody that has the integrity to run this most important office.

We NEED more Tokyo's in government!

Since Ellis is to officially lodge a complain,let him recommend who he thinks meets the requirements as per the NPA act quoted while he is at it.

In a decision,some will complain an the other will be happy and i think by voting a person into a certain position that on its won entrust the person to make certain decisions on our behalf and he doens't to consult with the world each time.

He has his team of advisors theat swa it fit to appoint Semelane and all we need to do is give them our support and see if there will be results unlike been the profets of doom sometimes.

Since it appears that Simelane contravened the NPA Act by attempting to exercise influence over prosecutorial decision making, why not bring a private prosecution against him. Firstly his office would have to issue a certificate "nolle proseque" declining to prosecute him and then it would be game on!

Etienne mokwana on November 27, 2009, 8:28 am We cannot just sit and wait and hope that this person, with his integrity clearly in tatters, will do what is right for SA. I mean we (Frene Ginala commission) already know that he has a propensity to speak shit and just staright out lie if he needs to. There is enough ammo hear to take a small country to war. We should, as quickly as possible, get rid of him and appoint someone that will do what is morally and ethically right for SA and not someone who just enjoys graunching Jacob.

President Jacob Zuma does not need permission from Ellis to appoint anyone in his office. Who does he think he is. Etienne you are actually right, some will be happy and some will be unhappy. Let him make a fool of himself cause the decision has been made, just like it was made with Sandile. So please Mr President remind them again who runs the country.

If Paul Ngobeni recommends him, that's enough to make him unfit for the job.

Etienne Mokwana on November 27, 2009, 8:28 am

Adv Vusi Pikoli is the man for the job. He has integrity and he is honourable and has good principles.

agreed V3...

The timing of the complain makes it to lack credibility and reduce it to jeaulusy and hate for JZ administration. why it wasn't lodged when Simelane was appointed acting deputy head of NPA? There's no way that JZ can make appointment without thorough consultation and the credebility of Similane was seriously scrutinized and the decision was made after such scrutiny. Obviously this will now become a complain agaist the state,and where will this complain end, nowhere!!!!

"Zuma showed leadership" what a joke.....if Simelane has been proven to be dishonest & lacking intergrity also lying under oath, then he's just not the right man.....it's funny that certain recommendations of the Ginwala inquiry are being followed while others aren't depending on which ones are suitable for the anc bosses.....this says a lot about Zuma's character.....it's open season for corruption, i'm going to align myself with anc officials now to also benefit.

When will ANC voters realise what this party is doing to the country?!

It still remains a mystery why officials with criminal backgrounds get appointed to top level positions. I mean an advocate, who lied under oath – what has happened to integrity, accountability and honesty – further more, prominent officials coming out in full support of Zuma’s decision to appoint Simelane. Just as dishonest - corrupt from top to bottom.

I am neither a supporter of the ANC nor that of the opposition. Lesson learned over a period is that we can be paranoid about situations and only to realise that Menzi will do a good job. If it was found that he is a liar, untrustworthy etc, it does not mean he will be same in this position as then he was a DG. Lets have a position outlook on life and the political dynamics of our country. It begs the question to all who are not happy to ask, "who else can/would be suitable for the position and why?"

@JLG what are they doing?appointing blacks...Zille appointed all white cabinet!

@Etienne mokwana, it is rather being naive to think that Simelane will suddenly have changed into a person of integrity because he now has this very powerful position. Think of Jackie Selebi who abused his position as Commissioner of Police. I agree that this is a rather cynical move by the President. It is so obviously a move where the ANC inner circle is taking care of one of its own.Ellis is to be admired and commended for taking this on. I think it is time we stop complaining and whining. We have this wonderful constitution, let's test it and take up our responsibilities as citizens. Good one!

Cigar & Cognac comrade , Align yourself with the ANC so that you can also get your piece??? If you are a black male, I almost can't believe you are already not freestyling your way right up that good old "brown" river. However, that is exactly what all our sun drenched brothers are thinking. I suspect if you are not already "milking it" you are going to have to join at the trough, which as you know can be rather messy affair. (Don't bother with a knive,fork and folded napkin, its a free for all, first come first serve, enjoy)

Who the hell is this Pat Ellis? Another white man who thinks he can dictate to a democratically elected President on whom he may appoint to certain positions! I agree with Ngobeni there was no adverse findings against Simelane because he was not on trial nor was he the defendent in Pikoli's case! Natural justice dictate that any person must have a right to defend or reply! In Simelani's case he had neither as Ginwhalla used an open forum to criticise him! His right in reply was lodged to the PSA and the Minister which cleared him. Simelane like any employee has a right to have his disciplinary proceedings or any enquiry be kept confidential. Are these reactionary and rightwing forces now forcing the Minister to release confidential employee information? This appointment will stand regardless of Ellis misguided and futile attempt to stop it!

I am waiting on the rightwingers like Ella, Sinudeity, Apocalypse and others to respond on my argument.

Good democratic people, let's not allow our blackness and misdirected egoes cloud our judgement. A Commission was set up and finalized it's findings and recommendations given to the justice minister and president for implimentation, why now can't they be implemented? If not what was the point of setting up the Commission?

Has Simelane no shame?

Three questions:
1. SA has so many excellent black legal experts, why does the ANC ALWAYS choose the one that is obviously tainted, unsuitable and and ANC deployment? Our constitution demands independent, credible and experts who understand the Constitution and how to operate within it.
2. Why do blacks here on this blog always jump up and support an obvious abuse of ANC power? Why don't they really support black empowerment and back that black person who takes SA's constitution seriusly?
3. Jeff Radebe is the black nationalistic poison. He's our new Verwoerd and the ANC is but the old NP. Is JZ just a does who can't apply his own mind?

@ Mokwana

Point of correction, in this country we never vote for president, we vote for the party and you will remeber that our poor people were exploited and threatened to put their vote next to our own ZANU. They then gave us the president. secondly can u remind me why was the Ginwala commission appointed for? because I dont remember any of its findings or recommendations implemented.

Let me warn you, if JZ carries on like this, he might not see the end of his term. I hope you respond.

nkosi - at least there are people (white or black) who know how a (so called) democratic system works. Government officials must be held accountable.

Just one question for you (and have the guts to respond to it)

It was found by Ginwala, one of the most senior officials in the ANC structures. that Similane (as an advocate) lied under oath. Does this meet your approval. If so, on what grounds.

Scenario: Simelane is a witness in a trial where, it is alledged you commited a murder, and, under oath, declares he saw you shooting the victim - will you be happy.

Peter, get it in your pea brain that there is absolute nothing wrong with Simelane's appointment! Once the press in this country associate anyone with JZ, there must be something sinister in his/her appointment to senior positions! Simelane did an excellent job at the competition commission and at the Dept. of Justice as DG, where he actually excelled in being prudent with the taxpayers money! In fact Simelane confronted those in the NPA about their wastefull spending about outsourcing work for which they are been paid to do themselves! One never see the heroic M&G reports on how the taxpayers money are been mismanaged by departments like the NPA. Simelane is an excellent manager and our President should not back down regardless of the white rightwing attempts!

sikelele: I dont have to respond as Im not a right winger.

Recommended by Paul Ngobeni? This Paul Ngobeni?

"Ngobeni is also permanently prohibited from practising law in Connecticut, after ethical misconduct charges were brought against him. "

And this Paul Ngobeni?
"Mark A. Dupuis, Communications Officer for the Division of Criminal Justice, State of Connecticut confirmed that "The status of the case remains unchanged, the charges are pending and Paul Ngobeni is a fugitive from justice in the State of Connecticut."

Ngobeni is currently facing a series of criminal charges in Connecticut. These are of forgery in the 3rd degree, larceny in the 4th degree, larceny in the 3rd degree and larceny in the 6th degree."

Ngobeni also admitted to City Press that he lacked South African legal qualification. However, he stated he was eligible to practice law through an exemption granted by the minister of justice, under the Recognition of Foreign Legal Qualifications and Practice Amendment Act of 1995.

Mr. Ngobeni has been disbarred in CT, MA, NY, and from the Federal Court System. He refuses to take care of his legal obligations in the United States.

OK, so Simelane has good backers; and please remind me why the Scorpions were disbanded? I get so confused.

@nkosi sikelele

You agree with Ngobeni???? Is this the same Paul Ngobeni who was disbarred in the USA because of fraud and stealing money from clients???

O, I forgot... The more corruption, the more you and your idiotic kind rejoice. God bless Africa.

This is a decision that will make people scream and shout but it WILL not change.

Andre, The GINWHALLA COMMISSION WAS NOT A COURT OF LAW. IF IT WAS, SIMELANE WOULD HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE GINWHALLA ON HER FINDINGS! You have not debated with me the as to why the Minister or the PSA should publicly make available an employee's disciplinary record?

Sinudeity...Tell me what are you? A draadsitter who just jump on the bandwagon when the ANC is in the firing line? You still did not answer my challenge.

LA QUEBECOISE hahahahahah Brilliant post. Nkosi, read it and weep dude. Nkosi your argument is massivley flawed by something called, the facts. We wouldn't even be having this argument if it was just about Sime just being associated with JZ, (thats his problem)but about the undisputed facts of Frene and a host of very competent people. Sime should do the right thing and leave. Now, I realise he might just feel he should hang in for a quick "pay as you go" which i suppose is his right, you know, previously disadvantaged and all.... but , well, fcuk that, hoof him.. also, everyone else has got one, except that complete prick from Eskom who was actually too thick to realize his mistake, he then tried to lie and say he did not resign so that he could get a payment but it fell apart for him, thank god. Screw them. I say, put thier pictures on the front pages of all major news papers for maximium embarrasment, if that is possibly, and then jail them.

Oh why,Oh why did Adv Vusi Pikoli not continue with his case against the Government. I am sure he would have won his case and he would have got his job back. Hope that one day Adv Pikoli will tell the nation WHY!!!

@JLG- there is nothing to realise in the ANC, BUT we realised that the opposition are bored and has no programme of action thatn to dismiss the Anc without solutions,

@Andre Scheepers-white people dont know democracy, they know privilages...

By the ANC's ACTIONS ..If it isnt easy for ..every single SA Voter..to see how quickly..how failed states, abound here in Africa and in other parts of the world....and how we are "Rusing to join them!",....then Heaven help us. IT'S TIME for the ANC TO GO...THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SELF-SERVING CORRUPTED AGENDA. THEY ARE MORALLY AND ETHICALLY BANKRUPT. THEY ARE NOT FIT to GOVERN...ITS TIME FOR THE ANC TO GO !!!
Ps.Is that answer, good enough for you nkosi sikelele ??
Pps. If that classifies me as being a "right winger" in your unseeing eyes, deaf ears and deranged and self serving logic...then "Bring it on", and I'll happily ,be called, "A right Winger !!"

And I have just learned that the 'doctorate' in jurisprudence Ngobeni claims to have, is, in reality the first level law degree (LLB).

So, it's a case of the fox advising other foxes on the guarding of the henhouse, right?

This is De javu and the Kangaroo court here at M&G is once again feasting. Zuma was once in the same situation where his name was mentioned elsewhere in a trial and voila “people started accusing him of the crime even before he stood trial”. I think this is his way of shoving a burning coal up the backsides of those who have not rid themselves of this malodorous bigotry after he himself was exonerated. Simelane was not on trial and what Ginuala's report says about him is neither here nor there until he is afforded an opportunity to present his side of the story.

This appointment is controversial, for a multitude of reasons. But I don't see what the big hoo-ha is all about. If we want a transparent government free from corruption then we need to be able challenge suspect appointments. And if there is nothing to hide, then show us and put our minds at ease.

Africa 4 Africans on November 27, 2009, 10:43 am
"@Andre Scheepers-white people dont know democracy, they know privilages..."

You see Africa, we just don't agree with banana republic type of democracy, and the privileges we have are privileges that we didn't steal, our fathers and those before them adopted a culture of discipline, integrity and responsibility so we can reap the benefits, instead of toy toying and throwing rocks.

short break already? guess we can expect more unwarranted defence when long break starts

i have not read the responses to this story in case i lose focus on what i want to say.

we have to be conscious of the political responsibilites of public offices because it is a reality. political versus technical considerations is a call that is made on a daily basis by people in charge of organisations in both the public and private spheres. so, no argument there.

we then have to consider on which side of the fence we are sitting and be brave enough to be honest to judge whether the decision and the logic defining it are legitimate or not. strategic decisions are taken everyday and if you have to judge them on moral or ethical grounds alone you will end up with scandals all over the place. it is curiously cynical to expect politics to be fair and ethical. it is politics stupid!

interestingly, south africa is pushing the envelope towards anarchy in the way we have to disclose everything under the guise of transparency. i almost think we are an unsustainable experiment executed in the pursuit of discrediting a government.

an exercise which will have very serious consequences.

in regard to simelane, he is no angel. i just think what he said in public disadvantaged him even if he was not the subject in the hearing. but should this have been in the public arena with all its sensitivity? i dont think so.

edwin matlapeng

hahahahahahah Ian you kill me dude.

A luta Continua na casa do macaco!

Once upon a time there was a party called the ANC who were given credit way beyond what they had actually achieved for helping to liberate SA. But that was okay as the country was in a reconcilatory mood and they were led by a good man and they had some pretty good ideas and policies.

Over the years they changed completely. The good man retired, one now HAS to be bad to be an ANC politicianm and they can now be relied upon to only have bad ideas and policies, but some voters still credit them as liberators.

However, every bad step they take, like this one, is going to get voters more and more incenced and they will soon lose power. Because the voters of this country will disassociate the party from any liberation credentials they once had, and they will be judged on their performance and their character. When the end comes, it will come very fast. And the ANC will delude themselves right to the end that they can continue doing what they are doing, secure in their power.

I think this is a very strategic move by the Government and the Gravy Train. There seems to be a trend of witch-hunting starting up in South Africa and the above mentioned are definitely going to need an Inside Man.

I've got 3 words for zuma 'No Mr President'

Please tell me why are there no such outcries when our President appoint white people? Look at the appointments of Marcus as a classical example? Despite the fact that she is a disciplined cadre, our white compatriots did not whisper one word of disaproval? This give rise to the perception by us blacks that in the eyes of our white compatriots everything black is corrupt, incompetent and a common thief!

I find it astonishing that these are the very same people all tell us they were opposed to apartheid! Where did all the racists and apartheid apologists disappeared to? Are they saying that only Eugene Tereblanche and his merrymen in the AWB were the only racists and supporters of apartheid? Should'nt we as blacks have a right to question white people's motives and brand it as pure and utter racist?

We see a clear attempt by certain prominent white people to force this country into a certain direction! A RIGHTWING DIRECTION!! They do this under the guise of the rights our constitution afforded them. Ironically a constitution that they were not part of drawing up but lambasted it as communist inspired! We know these rightwing elements are not limited to the legal profession but also at universities, NGO's, the press, internet bloggs, the public sector and the fifth columns within the ANC itself!

Certain academics does not even make it a secret about their contempt and disdain for our President! When Julius Malema labelled them racists the mainstream media used their influence to launch scating attacks on him! The media itself has become irellevant because despite all their propoganda against JZ, The masses gave them the finger and voted overwhelmingly for him! Methink, our Pres. is too accomodating and nice with a section of our people that are clearly ungratefull and racist!

Nkosi - again missing the point - the white people (in ANC) you refer to is not CORRUPT. I may not agree with their views or party politics, but at least they are not corrupt (or have I missed something)

Nkosi - waiting for your response to my question : November 27, 2009, 10:04 am

nkosi. i was six years old when apartheid ended but anyway... the courts, consisting of both white and black people, acquitted jz and i am willing to accept their decision. i am willing to put my faith in the courts. there is no black or white law, just law. so let the courts follow due process regardless of the colour of the prosecotor, judge or defendant. there are one or two white racists amongst the comments above but not all are like that. south africa is not the only country in the world where these processes must take place. i lived in america under the reign of george w bush and i reckon it was far more corrupt than anything the anc does.

Andre you keep on asking me questions but you refuse to take up my challenges? In the ANC,we are nonracial, so get that. Your question is ambiguous because you want me now to say this and that white cmde is corrupt! WHAT A NERVE of you! I used Gill Marcus to demonstrate your white racism and hypocrisy! She remains a committed ANC deployee!

Andre...You are living in a dreamland if you think a small racist party like the DA will ever rule this country! The DA demonstrated such sheer incompetence where they cannot even calculate the cost of the Cape Town IRT system! Only a fool would miscalculate an amount of R3bn! How can we as citizens trust our money in such incompetent hands? Zille is now trying to blame a non existant accountant for this foolishnes! Where were the oversight? HAA,HAA,HAAA!

“That shows leadership not being hamstrung by what opposition parties will say,” said Ngobeni, adding that the opposition was “not in power” and should not dictate to Zuma on his “prerogative” to appoint the NDPP.

He said that Ginwala made “adverse findings of fact” against Simelane who was not the subject of the commission and did not get an opportunity to defend himself. “Ginwala is not a judge,” Ngobeni said.

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MY SELF. I support Comrade Menzi's appointment, he's well qualified and skilled for the Job.

Andre, my question to you. Where were you when we were at the height of apartheid brutality? What was your contribution in getting rid of apartheid? Please answer these question honesty and if you were to young then, state so.

sikelele: Hey, if Alec Erwin was appointed any post, I would have objected. Same with Niehaus.

@ Andre Scheepers, I feel bad reading your posts without having paid for a ticket, you are an embarrassment to yourself and those whom you represent

nkosi sikelele...

You are correct, it was not Simelane that was under trial. However, his track record is tainted, just like his convicted fraudster backing Paul Ngobeni. Simelane is a man of low moral fibre, bends under political pressure and is purelly a political appointment. His appointnment WILL reduce the independence and credibility of the NPA. Good for white collar criminals, bad for South Africa.

to simplify it so some can get back to the learning they so clearly need to do. those without integrity will be questioned. those with will be accepted (sometimes grudgingly, but thats life)
e.g. marcus + integrity = ok. niehaus - integrity = no chance.

nkosi sikelele on November 27, 2009, 12:03 pm
Stop your sympathy seeking nonsense, apartheids looong gone my friend, or are yo still struggling?? ag siestog, the way you go on about apartheid makes me wonder if we should turn back time and make it much much worse and give you something real to complain about. Get with the times!

@ Jakes Observing. True that apartheid is long gone but somewhat myopic to imagine that it does not influence the world we are living in today. In fact, apartheid is still going to influence today's unborn children. Do you want me to give examples?

Ngoako - yes please.

The NPA does not serve the ANC or at least is not supposed to. They serve the nation and ANC is not the nation. So much as the goal is not necessarily to please everyone, an appointee to the position in question needs to be non-negotiably beyond repraoch so that the greater public, not just ANC supporters have confidence in the operations of this crucial office, whose mandate can not be entrusted to one on whom the great public look with much suspicion and not without reason. All we want is transparency and honesty. And to respond to a few prior posts, Gill Marcus's appointment is a laudable one. Experienced, technically sound and well respectable, no mud... Ministers like Tokyo, doing an admirable job which one would hope others will emulate all round and progress would be guaranteed... Bottom line, it's not about black or white.. We just don't want any Carl Niehuis types being appointed, i'm sure everyone on this platform who's disgruntled with this latest appointment would be screaming their disapproval in similar fashion had Niehuis been handed a post...(with what we've become accustomed to don't be surprised if that actually happens in the short-run). Back to my point; All we need in government is integrity and an unwavering dedication to the serving the masses, not self, coz that is why a government is elected to serve the people's interests.

@ Ian mcintosh. Ok here we go (in an oversimplified fashion), whites were unjustifiably given higher positions to supervise Black people - hence EE, Land was stolen - hence Land reform, Blacks were treated as second class citizens - hence equal rights, development was confined to white suburbs - all human settlements are now receiving services (or at least are entitled to), I am not going to insult your intelligence by going further!!

Jakes tell me from whom do I seek symphathy? Definately not from you or this bunch of racists and hypocrits on this forum! Apartheid is still been defended by a large majority of the diehards in this country!

In the 80's, children as young as 6 years old confronted Casspirs and Nyala armoured vehicles in resistance to apartheid, whilst some of these "johnny come lately" on this forum think apartheid never existed! Some whites still arrogantly cling to the notion of white supremacy and a hope that they shall return to the apartheid status quo! The ANC has saved this country from utter ruin both economical and political. The biggest mistake we did was to believe that whites will change and embrace the spirit of reconciliation and ubuntu! Instead we have been subjected to even more humiliation from whites who steadfastly want to cling to misguided superiority! Those in the leadership of the apartheid regime should have stand trial and their properties confiscated!

Nkosi Sikelele,

You seem to have a very short memory. The vast majority of Whites in South Africa during the 1990's voted for Apartheid to be ended in a referendum called by the government of the time. That means that it was in fact a small group of Right-wingers who clung to Apartheid and not the majority of Whites.

When we voted yes we ignored the warnings from the right-wingers that South Africa will go the way the rest of Africa went with poverty and a collapse of services and infrastructure.

Today when I look at the fact that I cannot even pay my municipal taxes because the municipality is unable to give me an account, the general collapse of third tier government in South Africa, the collapse of national government departments and the collapse of the police services, I wonder whether I made the right decision.

The collapse of our government departments and municipalities can be directly traced back to the policy of the ruling party to appoint people based on their loyalty to the party rather than their suitability for the job.

Democracy dictates that every person in this country should be able to vote for they party of their choice and I will fight to make sure that nobody loses that right. However, there is also a duty on every voter in this country to ensure that the party that he or she supports is the best party for the wellbeing of the country and its people.

Judging from the responses on this forum I am not always sure that everybody understands their duty as voters.

nkosi sikelele '...The ANC has saved this country from utter ruin both economical and political...'

Hysterical!!!!

It amazes me how these very same people who want the "honorable" advocate romoved was so silent during the hayday of apartheid oppression. White people benifited from apartheid and white men in paricular. Show me one who did not benifit or who is blameless or who did not benifit ,and then i will listen to Adv Elles"people who live in glass houses should not throw stones".

Zille does not have a all white cabinet (above), there is some (HDI's)in her cabinet who drink there coffee with too much milk.

Her believe that white is compotent and responsive find expression in her appiontments in her administration. This is the crux of the matter. There is a general believe that "black" people are not fully compotent and should not be entrusted with such responsibilities unless he/she drink there coffee white and become "coconuts".

Nkosi November 27, 2009, 12:03 pm
Nkosi
You wrote: ..”no such outcries when our President appoints white people? Look at the appointments of Marcus as a classical example … “

My response: There were no outcry – not because she is white or ANC, but because, from what is evident she is intelligent, held high positions in the past and most of all I have not heard or see that she has been charged with corruption or fraud. That is why there is no outcry. Race is not the issue – PLEASE GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD. Sorry I am not going to respond on your praises for the ANCYL. You know as well as I do, that probably the biggest racist this country has ever seen is ‘n small little imbecile called Foolius Dilemma.

Your question, where was I during the height of apartheid. Depends on what you regard as “the height”. I was born in 1951 so I have been around the block. It does not matter who says what about apartheid.

During the apartheid years we at least had law and order. During apartheid (white) ministers, MP’s and other officials were jailed, when found guilty of corruption and fraud. During apartheid the hospitals were clean and operational – including Baragwanath – at one stage the largest hospital in the Southern hemisphere, which the apartheid government bought, in 1948 for ± R300 million in today’s terms, for black people. The houses the NP government built in Soweto is still standing today – never was billions required to rebuilt these houses. During apartheid 16 (? more) universities/technicons were built for black people, especially in more remote areas, for easy access. Those living in urban areas had access to UCT, WITS etc. Apartheid education is always attacked. Funny that Mandela, Govan Mbeki and OR Tambo, all qualified as attorneys not even mentioning the other graduates. During apartheid the black population grew from 8.5 million to 35 million. Infant mortally down from 177/1000 to 54/1000. Go and read the TRC report on the deaths of blacks under apartheid – maybe you will rather believe that report. There is always the negative issue on the so called “dom-pas”. After its abolition what happened - squatter camps al over the countryside. Do you actually know when the first segregation laws were passed in SA and by whom?

On the height of apartheid nearly 70% of the white voters gave De Klerk a YES vote to follow a new dispensation. Yes apartheid was terrible. Such a pity most people today suffer from history amnesia. People has been totally brainwashed, indoctrinated and make to believe that apartheid was a crime against humanity – what a joke. Apartheid will not even feature in the first 500 of the worst government system in the history of the world. Just go and do research on the worst dictators and government systems.

O yes, neither me nor my parents voted for the NP. At one stage, (1975) I had to watch my back very carefully, after reporting a white policeman, who bribed my (black) tractor driver because of a rear light, defect. (Can you believe the bribe R5). The policeman was suspended.

Never the less – trust you are happy and satisfied with the state of affairs in South Africa. I will not get into arguments with you anymore – I can not handle misinformed people and racists.

@Jakes Observing -you got amnesia or you just playing dumb, dont insult me wena! your forefathers were muderers, thieves, bullies with no hearts, unless you were born in the late 90s then maybe , i said maybe i will understand that you misinformed, you guys are the ones that make some blacks kill and rob you, bcoz you think apartheid was a movie and now its finished then we nid to move on and reconcile, thats bull shit!!

statement like that is the reason the ANC will rule ntill the kingdom come, and as for you bringing the apartheid back? bring it on, will see who will flew this country first i can assure you, you wont make it to the dawn, do you even know why you Apartheid beneficiaries did give in, in 1994? i will take an educated guess! AGh, NOPE is bcoz you scums knew thay willbe a civil war after Chris Hani was shot by that Red neck Jalus Waluz, then you knew that kafeers are about to take you out.

The NPA and DSO was their own worst enemies! We all supported the scorpions when they were formed but unfortunately they became monsters! Under the leadership of three of the most incompetent ANC deployees, the scorpions went from being aspirant movie stars to meddling in intelligence matters! They misguidedly thought they were untouchable because they thought the media will always be their saviours and that the elected govt. of the day has no say over them! They even went as far to search the Presidency without NIA clearance, which is a criminal offence in any democracy around the world! In order to demonstrate to the DA their so-called independence, they deliberately targeted only ANC politicians for investigations. This so-called elite unit were just as incompetent as they have outsourced most of their work.

The people created them and the people through public participation simply abolish them! That should be a lesson to those who think they are above the people!

nkosi - I find it impossible to find a line of logic through your posts. What emerges is a pattern of 'if it's ANC it's good, if it challenges ANC it's wrong and racist. This is infantile thinking as it assumes the possibility of a perfect party. Your rantings against all who question the government show a total lack of understanding of what democracy is. We are all supposed to qestion those who govern the country and to hold them accountable for their actions. your tirades against the opposition are infantile - any logical thinker would want irregularities examined and unreliable people exposed -no matter what party or ethnic group they represent. Some of your posts do have some value (as comedy) but you really should keep this level of debate limited to interaction with the other children at your school.

@Andre Scheepers - did i hear you saying apartheid was bad? thats a first go on, on the flip side why is South Africa during your regime was excluded from international activities, like sport etc? hence Zimbabwe is still parcitipating? which one is bad your rigime or Mugabe's reposessing?

ANDRE...I beg you to please tell me who was these ministers that were jailed for corruption during the apartheid era? If I CAN REMEMBER THE APARTHEID REGIME BOUGHT AN ENGLISH NEWSPAPER WITH TAXPAYERS MONEY. WHO WAS THE MAN WHO TOOK THE RAP FOR THAT? A CERTAIN ESCHEL RHOODIE! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ENTIRE CABINET'S INVOLVEMENT?

The 70% of white voters who gave De Kler the yes vote were scared shitless for a political defeat by THE WHITE RIGHTWING!

WHEN THE ANC CAME INTO POWER THEY INHERITED A BANCRUPT COUNTRY AND HAD TO RESORT TO MASSIVE MAKE LOANS AT FOREIGN ENTITIES TO KEEP THE ECONOMY AFLOAT! THE APARTHEID GOVT. WAS CORRUPT TO THE CORE AND I AM CONVINCED THE ANC DID NOT WANT TO EXPOSE THESE FOOLS FOR FEAR OF JEOPARDISING RECONCILIATION.

Concerning your political affilations, I simply don't believe you1

@Andre Scheepers

You are like a rapist, trying to convince his victim that "it was not all that bad".

mmmmm the bliss of being a firestarter and seeing it unfold hahaha.
You guys need to get over yourselves. Everybody's probably got a bad history...but only some it seems has the ability to come out of it constructively instead of destructively, in this case the minority wants to help but still remains the underdogs and the golden egg lying gooses for the majority...another observation take notes hahaha

Yes, Pres Zuma is entitled to appoint whomever he wishes. The problem is whether he does so in good faith - most often the appointees lack integrity which casts serious doubt on the already questionable judgment of the president.
In no way can I as a citizen be reasonably expected to blindly accept decisions of the government because all important appointments made so far are designed to serve the ANC as a party rather than the people of SA.
The ANC house stinks to high heaven and is in need of fumigation.

Klasie Koek you must be very dof, not to see the logic. If your questioning of the ANC Govt. is done fair and objective and if you take the blinkers from your eyes and see the sometimes comical incompetence of the DA than surely I would agree with you. As long as you and your ilk blindly attack the govt., we will defend them.

Oh yes Koekie, I don't know what your qualifications are but you don't seem to bright yourself judging by your ridiculous name!

nkosi sikelele - strong words and some good arguments. Still does not prove Simelane to be anything but a crooked, immoral, 'yes-man' voiding the NPA of credibility and independence.

Unfortunatelly your view that all whites are racists is very misguided and clouding your judgement. I can simply not call you a rapist/murderer on the basis of your skin colour can i?

Africa 4 Africans "you guys are the ones that make some blacks kill and rob you",
I take it you see this kind of thing as acceptable. So you saying whites are the reason for violence?? You are a sick puppy that need a few pats on the nose, naughty naughty

George I did not see you brought out the fumigation when your apartheid masters were in charge! You whites always want to compare us with the imperialist countries of Europe and North America, my question is did George Bush appoint a democrat as his Attorney General? Did Blair appoint a conservative as his attorney general?

Moloko in your own misguided argument can you prove that Simelane is a crook and immoral man? Read one of my first post and see the argument I advanced to dismiss you and others slander!

@ Andre Scheepers blah blah blah blah........you were not in receiving end of apartheid. Baragwanath...please, one hospital v/s how many black people. The reason Nelson Mandela is so famous today (probably the most famous in the world), is because apartheid was so bad. Nothing can justify apartheid...klaar!

Indeed Victor! This poor Andre want to defend the indefensible! It seems poor Andre forgot that apartheid was declared a crime against humanity by the UN! Based on that declaration, the apartheid regime should have stand trial!

nkosi sikelele, did Bush appoint a corrupt, immoral attorney general? Did Blair appoint a convicted fraudster as his attorney general?

ANC has good competent people; but because they are honest people they cant play ball with the Corrupt high rolers and the ANC cronies.

@Jakes Observing- i maybe a sick puppy but i will never back down from a whitey, never, and i will defend my leaders as much as i can, no.. no .. one will inpose me with apartheid tactics to forsake the liberation party and im sure majority of this country feel the same the proove is on the polls..

nkosi sikelele
"The ANC has saved this country from utter ruin both economical and political"
you are living in a dream world, the wizard of oz is not coming today my friend.
"The biggest mistake we did was to believe that whites will change and embrace the spirit of reconciliation and ubuntu"
O so now everybody is standing in Mandelas shoes, and I bet that you and your likes have been a model for living that vision. Lying hypocrite!! Speak for yourself!!

@ Victor Vukeya YOU make mention of: "Baragwanath...please, one hospital v/s how many black people". Well, what do we have now? Let me tell you: 1) More people that make use of state hospitals than then, and 2) state hospitals which are barely functioning. Who's fault is this?

Nkosi. It is only know that I realise how misinformed people really are – and I am dead serious. That is way we have so many time wasting arguments.

Never the less:

Ministers & MP sentenced for fraud and corruption, during apartheid era.

• Hennie van der Walt, Schweizer-Reneke MP, sentenced in January 1988 to 10 years in prison (five years suspended) for 15 counts of theft of R800 000 in trust money while deputy minister of co-operation and development.
• Leon de Beer, former National Party MP for Hillbrow, jailed in 1989 for two years on 70 counts of electoral fraud. He served eight months.
• Peet de Pontes, resigned as the MP for East London city in 1989, fined R35 000 in 1991 for fraud, theft, bribery, forgery and uttering. He cheated a residence permit for controversial and alleged mafia financier Vito Palazzolo, bribed a public servant and stole a government file.
• Pietie du Plessis, a former cabinet minister, received a nine-year jail sentence in 1993 for 17 counts of fraud involving R30 million. He served two years and eight months, qualifying for early release because he was over 60 and ill.
• Abe Willians, former cabinet minister, received a three-year prison sentence in 2000 for corruption involving R240 000 and donor fund theft worth R383 000 while minister of welfare and population development.

You tell me if it is a crime to buy a newspaper with tax payers money. If you do not no the real reasons do your own research.

To state that 70% of whites were scared of the right wing is really the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. If you do not know that the 70% were actually laughing and joking about the ridiculous ideology of the right wing – ask anybody – the loudest laughter when they tried to ram the Codesa building with a vehicle.

I now rest my case. Just remember – as you own the right to defend / make statements, I have that same right – how ridiculous it may sound – or has the ANC take away my right, without me knowing it.

Dont EVEN BOTHER trying to explain to these ANC sheeple about accountability, incorruptibly etc.

When you argue them about a fallible leader, leading the prosecution agency, they bring apartheid into the discussion.

Are you protecting the corrupt individuals within the ANC, to protect your own 'skin' so to speak? There are corrupt white folks, and corrupt black folks. We DONT need to defend them, purely because they are the same colour as you, or as me.

Because in the end, they do more harm. An even worse choice than this, was Making Shaiks head of the intelligence agency.

The same man, who sold out his country, for profit.

Ngoako Modiba on November 27, 2009, 1:57 pm

My name is not JZ. Never the less – you know what sarcasim is …….

Hello boys, good to see the usual crowd, oh and the troupe. Troupe, let's all stand up for a minute while I list my points. It seems to me that some of you boys have been behaving badly again. A couple of quick observations. NKOSI; 1. Marcus does not qualify as a whitey, she is a big fat black mama in a white womans body. (However, because she is our RB gov I will reserve a more in depth comment after a year.) Oh, and both Niehaus, and Alec Irwin don't qualify either, they are both too stupid. In fact I am not even sure that they fall into the homosapien gategory at all. Thank god both of them are out, between them they are capable of starting the WW3 and not even realise it. 2. Your comment about there being certain "white" people steering this country into a "right wing" direction, is amsuing at least and downright absurd at most. Are you completely deranged or something. Firstly, there are hardly any white people in this country and the "right wing" got thier asses properly kicked in Botswana years ago and have never been able to walk properly since. The only Right wing you need to be worried about is me and a couple of other okes on these posts, and that certainly is nothing to be concerned about , Hey???? 3. As for the R3bn mess in the Cape Town district, you don't honestly believe that was the fault of any white folk, surely. With that amount of money, and it definitley being a struggle accounting issue there could only have been a couple darkies involved. Until you supply me with proof that it was the pale okes I will not believe it. 4. There are no more apartheid leaders left alive. I think that they are all dead now, or should be and probably will be in the very near future. Stop worrying about those old fcuks and look at what is currently happenning. 5. Arthur Cupido said "There is a general believe that "black" people are not fully compotent and should not be entrusted with such responsibilities " Er Cupido, that is not a perception, its a documented fact, just read any news paper headline in the last 10 f.....n years dude. 6. Ngoako Modiba , that was not a very nice things to say about the rape issue, but I am sure you where talking about JZ, or is he forgiven because he gave her breakfast and some taxi fare? Doos. 7. Victor, stop speaking such kak, Nelson is so famous because he is a cool oke, he has something that NONE of our current stock of primates has and that is INTEGRITY, also he made it through 28 years in jail and promptly walked out and became president of an entire country, how many other okes do you know can do that.

Andre what case are you resting? You are mentioning those three that were caught! Pett Du Pontes was a fool for trying to cheat his own people! No symphathy there as we were not allowed to vote then. Those other two you mentioned were just simply crooks. HAAA! HAAA! Laughable! There is a lot wrong when you clandestinely want to buy newspapers with the taxpayers money? Especially when you want to use it for propoganda against your political enemies! Not one cabinet minister was charged for that criminal misconduct.

Apocalypse, your back, hallelujah! I thought we are going to miss your presence on this august forum! Let the battle continue...

Apocalypse Now

Good laugh - keep it up !!

Apocalypse Now - you write some really good stuff.

Go Apocalypse!!!

@Nkosi.
Stupid argument if it holds true then, whites were not half as scared of the right wing as the 40 million black people were of 400 000 whites.

How do I get the 400 000
400 000 whites = 4 million minus 2 million woman, minus 500 000 over 60, minus 700 000 under 18, 400 000 who said they never voted or supported the regime and actively resisted the oppression of black people

@moloko moloko- blair was corrupt on his own, you nid to do research b4 you can defend your maters you puppet, Blair knew that There were not weapon of mass destruction in Iraq but he went went ahead together with Bush with the support of the DA, and kill innocent people, their blood is your hands window dressing!

@ Apocalypse Now

I knew it, you are the comedian (not a clown) that I've long been suspecting to be in our midst.

Hi apocalypse. Maybe you forgot who the mayor was with the BRT debacle,yes your right, it was your darling zille. guess what, who was the mayor for the staduim over runs,yes zille again, who is responsible for blikkiesdorp, yes, you right again ,zille. do you get it. Who claims to have the best accounting record for processes/procedures/systems, You right again.

You must have it by know, if not i don't know when you going to get it, no! ,no!, i know, never.

@Apocalypse Now- do you actually believe the crap that comes out of your mind? or you just a dull white boy with bornafide privileges?

Nkosi
To get back to an old point. I quote "The biggest mistake we did was to believe that whites will change and embrace the spirit of reconciliation and ubuntu"
No you are wrong. The biggest mistake you made was to believe that whites will embrace the spirit of corruption, violent crime and the worst racism of all, the one that we mus pretend does not exist....mark my words. you are dealing with people that will not stand much longer for that shit, and already people are starting to be heard. your claim to fame and the pathetic ANC gov are already becoming a claim to shame.

Africa 4 Africans on November 27, 2009, 3:27 pm 'There were not weapon of mass destruction in Iraq but he went went ahead together with Bush with the support of the DA, and kill innocent people'

Excuse me? With support of the DA?! What?

This Simelane discussion is a character debate and not one about his colour.

Life is far more rewarding when you add some shades or grey to your general outlook instead of the monochrome view you obviously choose to live with everyday.

Jakes Observing:do i haer the sound of leaving the country? pls do, i beg you LEAVE and take some of the ungratefull mouth stinking whites with you..

@watkins:Thank God for you

" Once upon a time there was a party called the ANC who were given credit way beyond what they had actually achieved for helping to liberate SA. But that was okay as the country was in a reconcilatory mood and they were led by a good man and they had some pretty good ideas and policies." Over the years they changed completely. The good man retired, one now HAS to be bad to be an ANC politicianm and they can now be relied upon to only have bad ideas and policies, but some voters still credit them as liberators. "

But I wish I shared your conclusion that people would be sick of the ineptitude and corruption, but it is my observation that 'the masses' seem to think that this is how it goes; business as usual.
Such naivete.

It has been my experience, that black never accept the responsibility for anything that goes wrong, so I do wonder though, on whom do they blame the mess SA is in?

Just a reminder everyone that this article heading is 'Move to disbar Simelane' and the comments should please have something vaguely to do with the topic. The subject is not 'Let's all generate random racial insults a propos of nothing in particular'. Thanks & regards

Nkosi
Sorry for not responding earlier - had things to do - Thank you for affirming my post and my opinion. It is entirely typical of your level of communication that you resort to name calling and judge me by my name, but as I said in my previous post, it is more suited to conversations with the other children at your school. If you don't have a point to make or defend here amongst the grownups, you should stay quiet. As a wise man once said -'It is better to keep quiet and let people think you are a fool than to speak up and confirm their suspicions'. Let this matter run it's course - if the gentleman in question (Mr Simelane) has been proven to have lied under oath, it would be entirely unsuitable for him to serve in this position. If you would like to challenge that point of view without reference to his colour or political affliations, I would be interested to read your comments. If not, why not use the time to finish your homework before mum and dad get home from work?

What exactly should expected of that gimpy Zuma.A dunce forever.


A CRIMINAL WILL ALWAYS SURROUND HIMSELF WITH CRIMINALS.ZUMA IS A HEAD HONCHO CRIMINAL.

@nkosi sikelele - whose your "you whites"? As a matter of fact it was white apartheid SA that created the first world element in this country and even if I was not a Nat supporter I am not ashamed to state that they achieved more in 10 years than other countries on the African continent combined. Now why does Africa persist in its backward state? Because her leaders and opinion formers adopt the same mindset as you do which says it's basically OK to be incompetent, inefficient and corrupt because we're African.
I agree that countries in the West (and by the way; fuck you & your imperialist countries - given half the chance fuckers like Mugabe would do the same on this continent) also make bad appointments but their political systems are designed to rectify the situation every few years.
So, stop trying to convince the world it's OK to be so damn pathetic.
And yes, it's OK to shame Simelane if he deserves it, and your mediocre form of Africanism will not get in the way of this.

Ha,ha,ha!!!!! Just had a good laugh. Nkosi says the ANC is a non racial party and that they don't discriminate. He used the words "we in the ANC". And then after the laugh I read his posts. Nkosi is definately one sandwich short of a picnic!!!!!! His posts are sooooo racist and sexist and vile. And then has the cheek to say that "we in the ANC are non racist and don't discriminate". He usally starts his posts with "you whites or the whites" and that in ANC speak in non racist!!!!!!

Hi guys and girls and then the darks fucken okes. hope you are all doing well.at least. Yes ok the darkies as well, I also hope you fucks are ok. Thats Vicki boy,Ngoako Modiba n A4AM PSA and a few newby's, Now here is s snal pearl,fuck thr oke nekt to you,hr swims and dies,

What are you on Apocalypse now - few too many Klippies and coke ? Anyway it is quite obvious nothing a white person says in SA will work, even when the majority are on their knees begging for light. It will always be blamed on the past, pure denial, and stupid leader followers will never see that the African way does not work at all well- hence the condition of Africa as a whole. The appointment of this character is proof again of small minded stupidity, justified by many in these comments as Zuma chosen and hence good. There is a golden rule : if it looks like shit, and smells like shit, and tasts like shit, then there is a good probability that is what it is.

HAHAHAHHAAH Sorry, Pasta dude, I have just noticed the drivel. I was on my way out , lights too dim, couldn't see keyboard, and not even sure I was on the correct forum. Catch in the news somewhere.

Thuli Madonsela as Public Protector = good choice.
Menzi Simelane as NDPP = bad choice.

It's about ETHICS and INTEGRITY and NOT RACE !!!

@Apocalypse Now- i think you should go join awb as their deputy leader president or whaterver the hell there are calling themseves on theirjourney to find their own land , currency etc , far, far away from S.A, coz with the stupidity mind you have Canada wont grant citizenship, bastard..,

A pleading note to all the posters on this thread: Racism is NEVER OK. Referring to "Darkies" and "mouth-stinking whites" is NOT OK AT ALL.

Also, acting as if there was ANYTHING about Apartheid that can be defended is a crime against the history of the struggle for freedom from opression, not only in SA but the world over.

We owe it to ourselves and to the future of this country to be decent. Stick to the basics: No name calling; no racism; no guilty verdicts before a court has given a guilty ruling (even if you are convinced the subject is probably a skunk.) That way we actually get to have some intelligent debate. No-one likes the ugly stupidity that threads like this one regresses to when we do not actively stick to basic decency.

On the Simelane appointment: It is a pity that no-one took Simelane seriously enough before in order to test his perjury in court. A pity he was not measured for eligibility for an office such as the head of the NPA before now. Doing it now means that JZ stands to lose face and the process has become too politicized. My be too late now.