Shaik's medical miracle

heheeeeeeeeeee! who would have thought it.

If Shaik is at death's door, its taking a long time to open.

It was all a big sham to start with. Judging by the Rapport photo of him a few weeks ago it is obvious that he is healthy. And there was noting terminal about his condition. The only 'lucky' part is that he is closely connected to his partner in crime - Zuma.

We thank the Mail&Guardian once again for revealing the ANC's depth of depravity -- all the way up to the Cabinet! Now we know why the ANC's spy services, now run by Shaik's brother Moe, have abused State powers and facilities to spy on the Mail & Guardian instead of the crooks who run the country into the ground. Who will protect us from our crooked ANC

It must be kept in mind that Shaik has Zuma by the nuts - if Shaik spills the beans, Zuma falls. Hence he will also be pardoned.

This is certainly not a revelation. It is a travesty of justice and as usual corruption and fraud are a large part of it. There is also no surprise that the ANC and its gang and very closely aligned with this character. JZ has got to be one of the most corrupt official in SA at the moment. So, where to for Shabby? Head of correctional services or what???

Now, who did these bozos think they were fooling? Well, seeing as his medical parole was wrong, it obviously has to be revoked forthwith and he must return to gaol to serve out his sentence, surely?

Well, MG have done a piss-poor job at analysing these "medical records".
Persistent hypertension is a common medical malady of middle aged and older men in particular. No surprises there that Shaik suffers from this. But what evidence is there of multi-organ failure? No evidence is provided whatsoever.

Shaik appears to be in extraordinary good health for a man in multi-organ failure. This makes a mockery of the medical profession involved in his assessment- (lets not even mention correctional services). Close to death my a-se. Its a total joke!
Setting the politics aside for a moment: Every second year medical student knows that there are very clear criteria and definitions of MOF. This case reeks of malpractice and brings the whole medical profession into disrepute. The governing body, i.e Health Professions Council of South Africa, should review this case, and in the case of misdiagnosis, and hang these quacks out to dry.
It is absolutely in the publics' interest that they do so urgently.

Who needs stand up comedy when we have Zuma, the ANC and Schaik
viva coruption!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!viva

Bad start to the year when we have to hear about this imbecile again !

I must say we are being played here! I mean if Zuma had his way Shaik should have been out of jail a long time ago. “Parole”, “pardons” these are just strategies of keeping Shaik out of jail. What I find ironic is the fact that the constitution clearly indicates that “we are all equal before the eyes of the law”. Well I guess they forgot to put in “except if you are connected to the Zuma or any top ANC government official.

THE TRAITS OF LIVING IN SOUTH AFRICA. I LOVE SA

At least it seems we're getting to the end of this saga. There is nothing we can do, as is evident in the recent past. At the end Shaik will have the last laugh.

JZ considering Shaik for a pardon is the biggest conflict of interest imaginable.

Some of you may remember that when 'Shammer' Shaik was released (not paroled) last year, I stated that I would not be holding my breath for his obituary - Thank god no one else was tempted to do so.

"Medical parole may be granted only in terms of section 79 of the Correctional Services Act if a person "is diagnosed as being in the final phase of any terminal disease" for them "to die a consolatory and dignified death".so if i understand correctly, at some stage one has to die which is why the parole is granted, so Shabby's conditions is getting better right, now would i be wrong if i said he needs to go back to jail since he's still alive and not about to die anytime soon?ooh but this is Mzansi nothing really makes sense....

Ha,haa,haa, haaa! The M&G's obsession with Shaik is now seriously becoming a joke! Conspiracy theories and sinister agendas is all this once proud newspaper is building its diminishing reputation on! But then again even I must concede that the M&G's readership represents the the anti-Zuma brigade. Thankfully they only represent less then 1% of the populace!

Regardless of these conspiracy theories and anti-Zuma sentiment, the Prez must proceed with the pardon as soon as possible! The M&G must not be allowed to influence this country's political discourse from a minority perspective! The arrogance of some whites that applauded the TRC is breathtaking because murderers could walk free! We will urge the NPA to have a relook at all apartheid era crimes against the majority and institute charges against those that misguidedly thought we forgot! The TRC failed the victims of apartheid era crimes!

The moment has finally arrived where we have to admit that M&G is an embedded member of the DA. This dumbing down of news in particular in SOUTH AFRICA is shameful to our democracy.
An independent MEDIA is crucial to any democracy. Media opens the space for citizens to know its issues, understand these issues properly and make informed decisions based along moral and principled values.

If one take the above reports and all the overt and covert attacks on Shaik, the parole board and all the medical practitioners attached to this it concludes according to the M&G reports that all these people together with govt colluded.
Not only do they conclude that all of the above behaved inappropriately, it also concludes that the characters of all of the above should be called into question.

Now we know that we have had a system in the past where a huge number of people were conditioned into a LIE. These people quite miraculously have disappeared because we can now today find no person who will admit that they lived a lie.
However against this background there would have been an expected outcome that this society would never take any MEDIA SPIN at face value. An expected outcome would have created a society that was highly socialised against rumours and exteme victimisation.
Media today has clearly become a rumour mill. A mere conveyor belt for lies aiding and abetting the interest of the right-wing.
The question that needs to be asked of this society, Given the history of this country, how much long will you allow yourself to be manipulated and do you NOT owe it to yourself to care enough to know the truth?

The key question: "He also questioned whether blood tests were conducted to see if Shaik was taking ...his medication to control his blood pressure."

The easiest way to induce 'intractible' hypertension is to avoid taking medication while consuming pizza and hamburgers - Shabby's stable diet while in prison, i mean hospital.

Do not be surprised when JZ pardons his friend before the month is out.

No doubt Dr (?) Mbanjwa's bank account has swelled somewhat ....

Although we know better, I think M&G are milking this a little now.

Sikelele: I fail to see the connection between TRC and top dawgs pardoning each other for stealing from South Africans.

@ Nkosi, if these reports are true, don't blame M&G or as you put it the anti Zuma brigade. Blame the guilty parties and face the facts. If you want charges instituted against apartheid era criminals then be fair and have charges instituted against the people that are busy with criminal activities today as well!

@ Kitty Kat, yes people were conditioned into a lie previously nothing has changed the same is happening now you are just looking at it from a different angle now. If people were and are incompotent get rid of them and take action againsts them how difficult is that to understand?

M&G can suit themselves; as far as I am concerned JZ owe it to Shaik, and it is coming; a pardon. Thank you for bracing us M&G. Shaik as corrupt as he was/is; was a sacrificial lamb of bigger arms procurement corruption, masterminded by, among them, Mbeki; with the help of M&G also used for the STOP ZUMA efforts.

By the way, Arms Procurement corruption has not stopped since Shaik's time, it is souring; pioneered mainly by whities still dominating Armscor and Army divisions; unfortunately we lack Investigative Journalism in this country. Thus we can expect the same newsmakers year after year.

nkosi sikelele is spot on. The majority rules and no minority is ever right. For 'majority' please read "ignorant mob-rule", and you'll get a sense of where we're going if the Nkosi Sikeleles have their way!
Bammo

South Africa is a lawless country. It's only those that are part of this Micky-Mouse Syndicate called the Government that gets away with everything.
Shaik is part of the gang. He was and still is, a financial advisor to the ringleader.
Let them ruin this country and maybe they will learn a thing or twio afterwards. I just don't give a s***t.

The moment has finally arrived where we have to admit that M&G is an embedded member of the DA.... LOL

The moment has finally arrived where we have to admit that KITTY KAT is a planted member of the ANC.

KITTY KAT - this is about honesty, ACCOUNTABILITY and justice - not DA vs ANC.

get a life - you sound a lot like siphiwe siphiwe who we dont hear from anymore either....

The precedence has been set by the Guinness 4. From Wikipedia:

"Saunders appealed against his sentence of five years in prison, and on 16 May 1991, the sentence was reduced to two and a half years. Lord Justice Neill said that he was satisfied that Saunders was suffering from pre-senile dementia associated with Alzheimer's disease, which is incurable. With full parole, Saunders was released from Ford Open Prison on 28 June 1991 having served only 10 months of his sentence.

A DTI report described him as a man who did "unjustifiable favours for friends and himself".

After release, he recovered from the symptoms which had led to the diagnosis. In an interview with The Times published in January 1992, Saunders said the symptoms were a result of a "cocktail of tranquilisers and sleeping tablets" he had been prescribed, and that he was making a good recovery. It is frequently asserted that Saunders procured his early release by pretending to have Alzheimer's; otherwise, he is the only known person alive to recover from the disease."

Sound familiar?

Hi Nkosi, you caught us out, very embarrassing for us. Thanks for pointing out to us that the ANC, Comrades Zuma and Shabir are actually good, honest and should not be questioned or critisized. After all, a struggle history should be a free pass for graft and dishonesty and should be an automatic protection ticket against criticism. Shame, after living through tough times, they need a break heh Nkosi? With your insight, we now know that whites and the liberal press (who are in their pockets) are actually the problem. DAMN them for exposing this!. I agree with Nkosi that whites should hear nothing, say nothing and do nothing. Only a black ANC comrade may criticize another black comrade - though then he would be “counter revolutionary” and should marginalized. Nkosi, with your insights you deserve a TOP job in ZanuPF. The destruction task there is not finished yet. JC

Kitty Kak

The moment has finally arrived where we have to admit that you are embedded in Zuma's member.

TRC. Ja, and then you have all those coward bomb planters, killing and maiming innocent civilians in bars and churches, still walking the streets of SA - appointed in senior positions.

Arm smuggler the chief of Metro police – now on charges of DUI. What an example for the youth of this country.

These cowards could not face the TRC, as their terror campaigns would come into the open- which was a completely different picture of these “angels”. Applied for collective amnesty !! what an embarrassment.

The pathetic soles publicly stated, early 1980, that, their arm struggle was doomed to failure.

@Kitty Kat. Your last paragraph.

"The question that needs to be asked of this society, Given the history of this country, how much long will you allow yourself to be manipulated and do you NOT owe it to yourself to care enough to know the truth?"

That is precisely the question you need to be asking yourself. Face the truth and stop being so gullible by blindly accepting all the government propaganda and spin.

I love the way we all waste our time agoinising over the efficacy of the medical records and the way they have been contrived. We all know this is a sham. I do not condone the actions, but then what's so different to the old regime. They were corrupt as ever (golden hand shakes, farms etc) and they walked into the sunset as well... blaming no one.
Politicians are a dirty bunch of scum bags, predominantly feathering their own nests at the publics expense.

Let's not try an intelectualise the merits... it has none and give this topic any more space!!

Kitty...We knew all along that the so-called mainstream press including the M&G and Independent newspapers are DA propoganda tools!

The DA is an opportunistic and racist party that simply don't trust blacks with the levers of power, therefore they use their minions in the press to attack the liberation movement (ANC) systematically on issues that is simply irellevant to the masses! The press has demonstrated extreme arrogance and could not even acknowledge their failure to derail JZ's bid to become Prez!

Hellen Zille, the esteemed leader of the DA, contradicted her spectacularly when opposition arose as a result of the IRT in Cape Town, when she said: "The party elected into govt. (DA) has the responsibility to implement its plans"! My question is why should this principle applies to the DA and her leader and not to the President of this country?

*sigh*. Once again the debate is hijacked by the trolls.
Stuff off KK. Non-ones interested.

While I am not politically aligned in any particular direction could NKOSI and KITTY KAT PLEASE explain how bringing us information is automatically linked to the DA? That could really be interpreted as a compliment to the DA... something I'm sure is not intended...

NKOSI and MENDI, why should Shaik be pardoned? So he was guilty (along with many others by your implication, Mendi) but because he "graciously" took the fall he should be rewarded with a pardon?.... Do you not have an ethical bone in your body? Or are you one of those that condone nepotism and the like? Guilty means jail time. Do the crime, serve the time??

Funny how Kitty Kat, Mendi and Nkosi will automatically take a stance to "defend" Zuma and the ANC when the article is actually about Shaik too. Are you that blindly loyal that you won't stand up for justice?

Kitty Kat is so right! M&G is once again proving to be a mere mouthpiece of the racist DA party. This sensationalism is like an porn addiction for DA and their cohorts in the media.

Devoting lead stories consistently to Shaik, a man who will probably NEVER see the inside of a prison again, serves no purpose other than to detract from the real corruption that affects the the majority in our country. Instead of being a voice for the voiceless our media seems to be beholden only to the privileged previously advantaged South Africans desperately trying to cling to their white AA privileges.

By turning a blind eye to the real corruption that stalks our country, our media does a disservice to our society. As an example, a simple comparison of the number of lead stories that deal with Shaik compared with the BILLIONS lost through the rampant corruptive practice of price fixing (mobile operators, milk, bread, petrol...) shows that lead stories involving Shaik wins hands down! More sensationalist distractions from our media, as opposed to exposing REAL corruption involving BILLIONS of rands that affects EVERY South African on a DAILY basis!!! Makes you think, doesn't it?

My view is that Mr Shaik's sentence was overly harsh and should be reviewed and reduced based on the legal principles that others were more guilty and walked free, that the sentence was excessive given precedence, and that the Arms Deal was never fully investigated and hence selective justice was done. However it never ceases to amaze me that those arguing (if you could call it that) for a pardon do not offer any reasoning, justification or substantiation whatsoever for their viewpoints..'the Prez must proceed with the pardon as soon as possible! ' I am never quite sure if they are defending corruption on principle (a shameful position), or arguing for politicians to be above the law (equally shameful). Maybe I give them too much credit to assume they have thought the issue through? I would have expected more intellectual diligence from the people of SA.

Dave, you one trick pony, do you actually have something to say? Why don't you cut and paste your single minded rhetoric- yes, we all get it:
the MG is the mouthpiece of the DA, and
anybody remotely melanin-challenged should just shut the f.. up because because they are all priviledged closet white racists.

Fine, you've made your point:
now join KK and stuff-off please.

Why are people surprised?
We all know what kind of country we live in and what kind of people run the country.
A bunch of crooks are always crooks, if they call themselves, government, minister or what makes no difference - this is an african country with the usual corrupt and thiefing leadership that will do exactly what they want, when they want with no regards to the law.

Can any ANC supporter please argue this one on the merits. As for conspiracy theory, its become quite clear that this it is no longer a theory that Shaik should not be on parole... And that he is benifitting from corrupt practices by influential officials and politicians. This is really embarassing when people shoot their mouths off in response to people legitimately exercising their rights to free speech and levelling legitimate criticism against the government. Yet there are no decent responses to this criticism and therefore no attempt to debate it. Just accusations and senseless vitriol ranging from apartheid to racism etc. Just because the wrong was done during apartheid times or just because the critique is somehow thought to be DA-esque or possibly eminating from white cynics, does not on its own negate the merit in the arguments criticising the government. Dont we have the moral conscience and therefore the moral leadership? Shouldnt we therefore have the better moral government? All you are doing is perpetuating the notion that ANC supporters and especially blacks cannot reason or think for themselves. I can just hear them saying to each other: "Well didnt I tell you these people cant and never will govern properly? why they're no better than the nats..." I am trying to believe in the integrity of my government and president but its becoming more and more difficult to do so. In fact i believe that without respect for rule of law, the ANC on its current trend is leading this country on a downward spiral into moral oblivion (and thats where the Zimbabwe's, Madagascars, DRC's etc come from). If its not the case, please give me a reason to believe otherwise.

I'm sure that the journo's at The Voice and Die Son would've done a much better job of this article than the excuse of journalists that compiled this farce of a 'media' piece.
It (M&G) is slowly but surely causing its own downfall. It can no longer be compared to even The Gaurdian (UK), but The Star, a tabloid which regularly and successfully gets sued for printing unfounded rubbish such as this.

Mark R, I completely agree. There is an acute sensitivity of any criticism of the powers- that- be on this matter.
The rotting can of worms that is the arms deal should be completely opened up for all to see.

Moxster: ditto KK and Dave Harris.
We get it!
Geeze, dude, you must get so tired paraphrasing each other.
Do you get paid or something for churning out this sh't?

@ The Moxter, so can we take it if it is so bad that we are not going to see your useless and one eyed comments anymore?

Yeah, stuff-off Coxster.

What a farce! A ludicrous nightmare presented as comedic tragedy, where law abiding citizens are being stuffed through the ears by unscrupulous, numb-nut, power-intoxicated, ANC dregs prancing around as leaders. Ha!

Apart from civil disobedience, what can the disenfranchised and disillusioned do about this? Nothing. Not even the fourth estate will have any effect, except alleviating our state of ignorance (Tip-of-the-hat to M&G, thank you!). This is just another example that our constitution is more useful as toilet paper.

A Luta Continua! (na casa dos macacos!!!!)

In relation to the Private Member's Bill proposal by the DA, which it (DA) poorly disguises as its agenda against Comrade Shabir Shaik and againt Comrade President Zuma:
'The proposed Bill by the Democratic Alliance is not born out of any legal or factual basis and is tantamount to seeking to amend the Constitution. The proposed Bill is therefore either a product of poor legal advice or the work of an ignorant, publicity-starved MP.

Any Bill that seeks to undermine the President and the Constitution as the supreme law of the Republic through cheap publicity stunts is not worthy of serious engagement. The Parliamentary Caucus will therefore reject the proposed Bill.'

This underlines the irrelevance of the DA. The DA needs to concentrate on expanding its electorate, instead of focussing on issues far out of its reach. The Desperate Alliance fails to see the importance of voter expansion in the pursuit of winning the national election. It cannot dictate national policies if it is not in power. Numbers count, which the confused DA lack miserably and are too dum to recognise.

[“If a bill is not proposed by the ruling party, there's little chances of it being passed, so good luck to the DA" – Bantu Holomisa on SAfm yesterday morning.]

See the Xenophobes attacking the DA again, even though this story is about Shaik, President Cave-dweller and ANC cover-ups.

It unreasonable for anybody to expect reasons for pardon from those such as me. For any logical person, JZ's people are buisy putting together reasons why and how Shaik's pardon should be handled; why should I bother reasoning that. The debate I find rather worthwhile here is from Dave Harris.

We live in such a corrupt country, from bussines ethics to morality. So is the world around us, by the way. Justice is a wish for many; poor people continue to be marginalised; whilst the powerful continue to spend fortunes on our politicians to ensure status quo remains. The very corrupt ANC is the only hope and continue carryout programs helping the hopes of the marginalised to be realised (when they are not filling their pockets ofcourse).

What saddens me is the corruption of the powerful(mostly whities; these days some darkies too), to ensure this country's shift is at snails pace, corrupt procurement practices in State Entities and private sector have one goals, keep these darkies out, and only allow just enough to keep politicians happy. While M&G and the likes are running propagandas to narrow corruption to the boardrooms and parliaments; the status quo remains.

It is astounding that Moxster, Nkosi and KK have had thick enough skins to even post comments on this article. If true (and the odds are that it is) this highlights an ethos of dishonesty and disdain for due process and the rule of law. To defend it is to demean yourself. The only consolation I can find is to believe that these Cretins do not represent a substantial percentage of even the ANC's constituency.

What irritates me is the fact that we ALL knew, ALL of us, what a farce the parole was from day one. You won't see Shaik get sent back to jail now. He's going to be living it up til the end of his days - and I can promise you he has at least another 20 years in him!

Nkosi, Ranjeni (sorry, KittyKat - hard to tell the difference), Moxster and Dave; I am an ANC supporter and I think this article is just fine. Just because we should investigate price fixing and other issues does not mean we should ignore cases where individuals are getting specially treated because they are politically connected. Quite frankly i find you all pretty pathetic - this is not a bloody, 'with us or against us', football match! Moxster says DA should focus on increasing its numbers, very true. And the ANC needs to work on getting its house in order and delivering (since we have the numbers), and that includes dealing with political favouritism and corruption.

There is a possible legal solution - a general amnesty for perpetrators of corruption in the Arms Deal, coupled to a full impartial investigation and full disclosure. This would solve Mr Shaik's selective prosecution, provide a legal basis for a pardon and more importantly offer SA the truth about the festering sore that the Arms Deal has become. Many names in the old regime would be named, and some in the new. It would be in the new spirit of 'glasnost and perestroika' that Mr Zuma has brought with him. It would restore the faith that the nation is more important than the party or politicians. An amnesty would be the only way to get people to come forward. It would improve SA's image in the eyes of the world. It may, however, require more moral courage than our leadership possesses.

Where this is going to end MR President; The apartheid regime never thought of the present state of affairs. Where ever you go HISTORY is going to judge you.

Ol' Moxie, At it again. Still the same old sweeping allegations, stereotyping and speculation perpetuated by you - low level, rabble rouser – you naughty okey !!

One can discover a great deal of relevant information about people, through reading about their Zodiac sign. I bet my life’s savings, your were born under Cancer. Evident why you’re such a staunch imitator of your party: cANCer.

Is Helga aware of your day time activities, your employee of your “momentous” time wasted, during offices hours. Introspection may find a solution to your frustrations as often evident in postings.

Be careful as not to paint yourself “Innie” corner. Difficult to get out from there.

And remember:

Smith And Wesson 500 Magnum – still the most powerful handgun in the world.

Harry Callahan (aka Dirty Harry)

Mark Robertson, I support your sentiments, to a degree.
A political (legal) solution, taking the Arms Deal into account, should appease all parties involved. Like the TravelGate saga, where perpetrators were named and shamed, it would give South Africa a chance to put the Arms Deal debacle behind us and move forward. Full disclosure should be a pre-requisite. It would be bluddy marvellous if such an initiative is already being discussed (behind closed doors).

I suggest that the mindless right-wing elitists should stop embarrassing themselves with this thoughtless belligerence.
How can you be belligerent about things you do not know?

Firstly, will M&G please identify all these doctors and once and for all give us their credentials
Secondly, please will M&G identify all who serve on the parole board and will they please give us their credentials.
I want to know how M&G has managed to get the all the medical details of SHAIK noting that there is some information that is priviledged information.
Thirdly, can M&G disclose how they got the information to factually confirm that SHAIK and DE KOCK has applied for a presidential pardon?

Now in order for me to make an informed decision whether or not to undermine MY PRESIDENT'S constitutional PREROGATIVE according to all obligations held in terms of that particular act, surely I will want to know that there is no issue of credibility around the questions.

I will also say to the belligerent minority. You DID NOT fight for democracy in this country. You DID NOT fight for the rights and dignity of the majorith in this country. You DID NOT freely decide that apartheid was WRONG. You had to be dragged to the 'river' kicking and screaming and we 'forced' you to drink from the 'river of truth'.
Lastly, I think that it is obvious that there are those amongst us who despite having the truth in their realm will continuously choose to ignore it. For me and millions like me, there is something very valuable in knowing what is wrong and being honest about it.

Thanks M&G for keeping the people informed. Corruption like this will continue forever and ever if it's not exposed.

I once read a story (fictional , of course)

A great president from the African continent went to a Swiss banker and demanded to know which of the previous presidents had a bank account with them.

The Swiss banker refused to give the information.
The president demanded again, and said he would break diplomatic relations with the swiss,if the information is kept secret.

The banker refused again....

The great leader pulled out a gold plated .45 , pointed it at the banker , and repeated his demand.

The banker , cowering in fear, still refused to give the information.....

Excellent, replied the great president, I would like to open an account!

Don't feed the trolls! Nkosi, Kitty, Mendi & Moxie are probably just a bunch of 10-year-old white kids having some fun!

I told them not to vote for ANC,now look what happend. im still waiting for the day that the people of SA will say well done ANC for a job well done. I guess i will be waiting for a very loooooooonnnnnggg time.

KK - sod off with your baseless assumptions and pointless use of capitals

Kitty Kots, so many questions.... if only you would read the article most of them will be answered. But, like the lazy incompetent ANC government officials, you'd rather be spoon fed than read and interpret for yourself. As for your Prez (Nyanga Pimp), he is the puss behind the whole affair. He is a liar and a fraud - yet your hero.... you are on the dark side of intellect my foe.

@ Kitty Kat, it looks like you like to ignore the truth when it suits you. Just rember the Germans thought Hitler was right. They say history repeats itself.

@hawu now
Me repeating myself? Your feeble mind cannot see the bigger picture. Did you ever think that these articles and comments are also be picked by and analyzed by various international organizations? The power of modern technology dude! What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others, since many are curious to obtain firsthand insight into how reconciliation is really "progressing" in SA. So,my friend, people overseas are not surprised at the turn of events in SA and not shocked when they encounter this unique breed of SAn racists aided and abetted by the media!!!

Can we for a change stop this hallabaloo about Shaik and discuss important and constructive issues,I mean1.Education,economy,how far is transformation,what are its successes/failures.

We have heared more than enough about This story and it starts to get boring.

thumbs up to zapiro on his latest piece. rather relevant to this article. sure to have harris, kk, moxie throwing hissy fits galore..

KK - learn to spell "majority" before exercising right of voicing a crappy opinion

@Kitty Kat and Dave Harris: Do you remember the pain and rage at seeing the real criminals on SAUK while loved ones were “terrorists” in prison? If you actually do, maybe you can imagine how mothers of petty criminals dying of AIDS feel when they see the smirking face of Shaik. Not once have you even acknowledged the filthy disregard for equality before the law that people died for. All you have the energy and time for it seems is defending parasites as a dumb knee jerk against those who criticise. Sure, some of those critics are indeed racist pigs (like we really need you to tell us this) but where’s your moral high ground when you defend a millionaire fraudster at the expense of the thousands of imprisoned poor jailed for minor economic crimes and really terminal as a result?

The composition of the editorial tgeam of this one-sided anti-blacks paper needs a serious Transformation.

On an almost completely unrelated topic vis a vis the arms deal (but as relevant as many of the comments above, especially those that venture into the murky waters of ethnicity, which always tend to obscure rather than illuminate), I wonder how many people are aware that the main component of the arms deal, the Gripen fighter, has such high US content (principally the engine) that the US govt can immobilise our entire defence force simply by withholding spares. It's an interesting lesson in how political loyalty (to the Scandinavians, whereas SA was dead against buying US equipment due to the fear of foreign policy leverage) can result in a decision with unintended and paradoxical consequences. We paid a high price for a deal that has made us more dependent than we were before...exactly the opposite of our strategic intention.

The rightwing reactionary minority on this forum has so far failed to answer me on the simple question of why the DA can allocate itself the principle of governing because they won the WC but refuse the ANC the same!

The DA is nothing short of a disgrace as a political party with their poor bancrupt policies! The DA is proposing opportunistic private members bills in Parliament which was thankfully dismissed by the ANC as ANOTHER PUBLICITY STUNT! A white SAN is being held in Afghanistan on murder charges and the DA wants the International Relations Dept. to interfere in a sovereign country's judicial processes! This clearly demonstrate their hypocrisy and double standards! They and their minions in the press wants to crucify the govt. over Shaik but when it suits their misguided agendas intereferences is necessarry! Only the fools like Klasie Koek, Fed Up, Sinudeity and other rightwingers will take them serious!

The media's and the Desperate Alliance's agenda is clear to see, from a shoddy article such as this. Only those foolhardy enough will believe it to be objective and in the public's interest (ie. its meagre attempt at informing the public). All that it does is entrenching its racist principles and alienating the very people it is under the illusion of protecting. It represents the minority who is hell-bent on still trying to dictate national policy. That time is long gone !

@ Mark, just shows you what big problems we can get when we have incompetent people making decisions. We need this to be rooted out from top to bottom.

I htink the ANC should set up a web site. You put your credit card in. Donate half a million bucks to the minister of your choice and they then owe you one "bend the law" ticket. An open makret for corruption would be more effective all round. Eventually the price for certain favours would be open, we would know to get off murder costs for example 1 million bucks, a swiss account and a donation to chancellor house, whereaqs getting your planning permissions in a day woudl cot 10 000 rands. All in all we would know where we stand. Anyone who does not have their party membership in this countyr is an idiot. sign up now and go mad... while there is still stuff to steal.

What makes me laugh is how South Africans on the whole can not understand why the international perception of your country is that of a lawless society with upstanding citizens living behind barbed wire and electric fences.

In my opinion it is a huge failing on South Africans part not to attempt to change those perceptions as part of the marketing for WC 2010. That is the aftermath of the picture painted by South Africa using the global media as a tool to bringing the end to apartheid. No counter media coverage, therefore the perception still exists, blame the media or blame those that control the media.

Of course the media doesn’t help as globally they seem to be a mission of fear mongering and positive news in the press is like a pork chop in a synagogue,

My 5 cents


50 cents and we can make a rapp song !

nkosi SICKelele

"The M&G must not be allowed to influence this country's political discourse from a minority perspective!" Huh?

The erudite Mizz Madikizela-Mandela said something equally bizarre to the media about the media: “We know your responsibility is to inform us, but do so patriotically without insulting one of our own. Use the freedom of press we gave you properly, because we can take it from you.”

Freedom (are you free or are you dom?) of expression is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights which means that neither you nor that other fraudster can fiddle with it!

@ Atlas Reader
"Now, who did these bozos think they were fooling?"

No one at all. But the ANC and Zuma DO NOT CARE at all. The stakes are high here. If Shaik stayed in jail (really hospital) he woudl spill the beans. And his brothers were no doubt putting pressure on outside hospital/jail.
They has enough to bring down Zuma over his corruption and probably the unintended consequence would be that the ANC would fail as the dominoes started to fall.
No doubt Shaik and his brothers have the dirt with lawyers who would release it if any of them were to die suddenly so the ANC coudl not bump them off. Only solution? Parole and then pardon for Shaik, well paid positions for his brothers, return of the confiscated assets to Shaik.
Watch this space and be prepared to vomit further

I’ve got one advice to all the fellow South Africans who are concerned about our justice system and can clearly see that our justice system is falling apart and that guys like Shaik are making a mockery out of it. WELL GUYS THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THIS SITUATION! Unless if one of you is a close ally to Zuma and you can convince him other wise, which I guess none of you are! So let’s stop wasting our time and energy by commenting about this issue and let’s do something constructive like WORK (to those who are at the office).

Lets not be side tracked from the main issue here. The parole board need to answer to all these allegations and not Mr. Shaik or President Zuma. We have government and private structures and institutions in place and as much as we would like them to operate and deliver quality service to the public they do make mistakes from time to time. The same goes for the Mail and Guardian in my opinion. They reported that Shaik was examined by three doctors, now this was a little while ago after Shaik’s release. Now they turn around-because it suits them-and say Shaik was examined BY HIS OWN PRACTITIONER.
M&G needs to tell us which-is-which here. That is the first point.

Secondly, the whole story about Shaik is being blown out of proportion, lets be honest. There were two individuals which were mentioned by the paper who were supposedly being considered by the Presidency for Parole. Why are we not seeing articles about De Kock-the other individual-who has to date has spent only a few years in jail after being sentences for a lengthy term. De Kock murdered people or should I say murdered Black People. He did that as a hobby. Shaik was convicted of FRAUD which of the two is more serious?

@ Nkosi, why is it that you just can't accept it if the leading party makes a mistake? They are not above the law as you might think. We are talking about reality here.

@Kitty Kat

... my God, you're stupid.

*sigh* what a waste of time.

I am simply floored by this story.

That poor excuse for a medical professional Mbanjwa claims "Medical parole may be granted only in terms of section 79 of the Correctional Services Act if a person "is diagnosed as being in the final phase of any terminal disease" for them "to die a consolatory and dignified death".

Fine, I do not disagree with this law - support it actually. What I have a problem with is the inconsistency between this "doctor" who has never examined Shaik, and Shaik's psychiatrist, Gangat. He claims in the parole hearing that releasing Shaik from incarceration was likely to lead to an improvement in Shaik's medical condition. So 2 separate individuals present at the same parole hearing who have conflicting stories - one claims terminal illness, the other claims the patient's health will improve upon release.

It is a shame and embarrassment to the people who hold positions on these parole boards. These people occupy very powerful positions & potentially can create a lot of good or bad with their decisions. This wasn't bad, it was bloody foolish. They should understand that there are some bright people in this country, who will not stand for such blantant oversight & "poor judgement". It is clear that palms are being greased in this situation, and that Schabir Shaik's health will continue to improve & his powerful hold over government officials & the president himself will grow ever more powerful.

JZ you sold your soul - we now have to deal with the consequences. Thanks very much.

And as for you Xolani Sibisi, it is public opinion that these people share, in a free democracy that many people fought & died for. Give them a break.

There are serious problems within our judiciary and we hope cmde Radebe will rectify these challenges!

One corrective action is to grant cmde Shaik an immediate pardon! It is time for this govt. to act tough against our racist white compatriots! The ANC under JZ's leadership has received an overwhelming mandate from the elecorate to govern.

Our people did not vote for the racist DA and other irellevant parties! We did not vote for NGO's, newspapers, commentators, dump political analysts like Justice Malala, rightwing legal analysts like Pierre De Vos, academics like Jonathan Jansen! They are the minority and we cannot allow them to dictate our political discourse from their perspective!

The ANC has been elected to rule and if it means changing the constitution, so be it! Hopefully through such actions, we will see the back of many white racists!

I am an ex-prisoner with high blood pressure and diebetes. I was kept in the hospital section at Goodwood Corrections Centre and the treatment there was adequate. I cannot see why Shaik could not have been kept in the hospital section of a Corrections Centre. We even had access to a Psychiatrist. If Shaik wanted to he could have had access to his own doctors at his own cost. He could have had a room of his own and the stress in the hospital is far less than in the main sections of the prison. The diets meals are healthy, though tasteless. Always buy Aromat and Chakalaka from the prison shop. But I am afraid no take-aways! If he was definitely in the terminal stages of dying, then release is understandable.

So the corruption of the ANC is about to be made public. And yet the people still support and follow them. Astounding! People supported Hitler - look what happened. People supported Mad Bob - look what happened. And when it gets pointed out to them the race card is played.

why is the m&g so obsessed with shabir cant they shift focus to apartheid era murderers,fraudsters who have taken billions of rands overseas

mabusa

JZ must quickly pardon comrade Shaik. It's unfortunate that he even needs pardon when he was clearly made 'fall guy' by the forces of counter revolution.

@White Mamba-"killing and maiming innocent civilians in bars and churches" I feel there were too few such incidents and I concede it was an underachievement from our side; we could have done much better.

@Moloko Moloko- I hope you're a white man pretending to be Black. However if you're indeed Black you're a disgrace to the race.

Surely this is a matter which is ideally suited for review by the Constitutional Court?
If there are any real doubts about Mr Shaik's health or whether he is simply being given a free pass after being sentenced to 15 years imprisonment for corruption (which in effect amounts to stealing from the poorest of the poor -- and there are plenty of them) the institution best suited to decide the issue is undoubtedly the Constitutional Court.
Parolling prisoners who are terminally ill is like motherhood and apple pie and one really has to be a mean soul to oppose it. On the other hand, people who have knowingly harmed society and enriched themselves (and in cases, their associates) in the process, need to be dealt with severely.
Where parolling or even pardoning criminals is always going to be a contentious issue, it would be a milestone in the administration of South African justice if an august body such as the Constitutional Court could for once and all lay down guidelines which transcend the interests of political parties in making such calls.

gerald cubitt

We all know what kind of country we live in and what kind of people run the country.
A bunch of crooks are always crooks, if they call themselves, government, minister or what makes no difference - this is an african country with the usual corrupt and thiefing leadership that will do exactly what they want, when they want with no regards to the law.

Nkosi - 'One corrective action is to grant cmde Shaik an immediate pardon! It is time for this govt. to act tough against our racist white compatriots! '

So Shaik should be released as payback for apartheid/racism?

If only our government will act against idiocy...

ANCriminals!!! Sies Nkosi, by affiliation you should go to jail (if you're not already running a undercover ANC wing from a prison cell, i.e. ANC governmental training)

@nkosi sikelele YOU ARE A MO.RON

@ Timothy, the big difference is that de Kock is still in jail and serving his time like any normal prisoner. He is not living in the lap of luxury due to what seems to be people not doing their jobs properly.

I hope that MY PRESIDENT JZ gives SHAIK a pardon.

We must learn to refuse to be pawns in a white man's game. This type of politics calls upon us to provide our own intitiative, to act at our own pace and not according to that which is being created for us. South Africa is our country and it belongs to us, there is no other person who must come and define what it is that we must to

Freedom Ndlovu, you wrote:

@White Mamba-"killing and maiming innocent civilians in bars and churches" I feel there were too few such incidents and I concede it was an underachievement from our side; we could have done much better.

You know what Freedom, that is just the spirit of reconciliation and togetherness this country needs. Thanks for setting such a wonderful example.

nkosi, is it wrong to critisize the ANC? They are, at this moment, the biggest and most corrupt organization in the country. A little mafia, all by themselve. It is easy to paint all critisism as "right wing" retoric. If the ANC was elected to govern, instead of rule, perhaps we will not see such corruption, as we are seeing now. Remember, to be able to recognize a racist, you have to be one yourself. I am amazed that people like Kitty Kat, Dave Harris and yourself are defending corruption. Is that what the struggle was all about? To be more corrupt than the previous bunch of thieving barstewards? I am sure you will paint me in the same right wing corner. If so, then I will be proud of it, as long as I am not seen as a supporter of corruption.

Shaik' application, if any, is in front of the President and has relayed to him why he thinks he should be pardoned, and Zuma would peruse them and consider if he is acting within the law to grant him pardon. Giving silly comments about Shaik is not going to help or influence any decision in this regard. Shaik, like any other citizen of this country protected by its constitution, has a rigth to seek Presidential Pardon if he so wish. People who intil now are still questioning Shaik's health must go back to class and register for medicine studies. Let's leave health matters to health people and that is Doctors.

south africans have a bad habit of playing the race card when they don't agree. they have no ability whatsoever to debate intelligently. It's a shame, there is so much to talk about.

Nkosi, for an intelligent man, you astound me with your stupid comments. Surely you are able to engage in a debate without using the race card! You don't do yourself any favours by writing such drivel. Engage us and tell us why we are wrong (and not just because we are white).

Kitty Kat, you are sounding more pathetic by the day. You should be appointed as JZ's lapdog. Better still, become wife no 5 or 6 or 7. With such undying loyalty he can't go wrong except nobody will take you seriously. And while you're at it, change your name because kitty kats are independant, intelligent animals. How about a name like ostrich? With eyes bigger than their brains, that would really be apt for you!

The Intellectual Bankrupcy and sheer 'dofness' of those who received priviledged education must really be embarrassing to the beneficiaries of apartheid!

Yes Kitty Kat, and your Bantu education is very apparent on these pages.

@Louise, I wonder when you are going to get it into your head that no amount of calling us, stupid,lazy,drunk,animals or savages has had no effect on us at all. You and your forefathers have been calling us these names for over 350yrs(!)
Cant YOU at least use some emotional intelligence and BREAK THE CYCLE. The more you shout, the less we hear! Try something new, especially for 2010, ITS GOING TO BE A GREAT YEAR!

So kitty kat what education did you receive? Or should we decide on your comments? Ummm that would be telling! Ostrich! (Eyes bigger than brains!)

There is an (old) struggle song that goes: "We shall not be moved".
The ANC has democratically been put in power, by the majority of its people. We, the ANC, shall no be moved by the misleading neo-liberal irrelevant few who still want to hold onto their ill-gotten assets. EVERYTHING they have, EVERYTHING they own, is illegitimate.
The following is taken from a song about the plight of the Australian Aborigine, which aptly applies to the masses of this country, who were stripped of our land and our dignity: "It belongs to them, let's give it back" - Midnight Oil

I'm waiting to hear how the Blacks who support their comrade Shaik's pardon justify this except by saying that a) he was just a fall guy (so, not guilty of fraud??) or b) wait for it, this whole thing is just a means for Whites to ... I think they're saying Whites are trying to take the country back. Take the country back by criticising Shaik the crook and the president who is his mate. Wow the Whites must have magic powers.

Nkosi, Moxster, kakky kat et al. None of you voted DA and never will so get over yourselves and forget about them. Why the obession with them? Are you angry because they are doing a good job of exposing corruption? And the obession with the M&G? None of you can resist reading it! Chill guys and go and start your own newspaper. It's a free country that we live in!

A patended editing tool when confronted by 100s of comments and needing to filter those with insight/ value, and those without. Download the whole, and then apply a word filter removing any reference to race, racial labels, ethnicity, or the names of political parties. The comments that remain may have some bearing on the topic, and may even have some new insights.

Ok somewhere this whole debate lost the plot. Was it not about the fact that Shaik's medical parole was granted on shady conditions ond procedures?

All the politiking is just too much for the brain. And racism is alive and well on this site. OK - when the productive and caring minority get the sh??ts and leave the poor and needy masses to march to their own drum - then perhaps peace will reign! Africa is no longer a mystery any more and is it any wonder that those sold into slavery are not rushing back to claim their homeland?

The Moxster

I own a black man which i won in a poker game in lesotho. Shall i give him back? i dont think so!!!

O, and the midnight oil song actually refers to the governments german sedans. Yes please, give it back!!!

@Louise, stop howling like a dog

say something meaningful, intelligent useful...worthy....notable....dignified...constructive...
something which indicates that you have used some brain cells (at the very least) to undertand the report, that you have processed the information and that cognitively, you have undertood the content.
Please humour me.....with just a teenie..weenie....pinkie..size...INTELLIGENCE!

Comrade Shabir Shaik deserves a presidential pardon.
Comrade Shabir Shaik will get his presidential pardon.
We will not entertain the wishes of the misguided and confused, for they, in the bigger scheme of things, do not matter.

Moxster, there is also a NORMAL song "We shall not be moved". If the hated whites could adopt a song it would be that. Meaning this counrty is made up of all races and there are WHITE South African's that will not be moved from their home country. Deal with it and get over your hatred of whites as they are here to stay! Besides your rhetoric only appeals to idiots like yourself!

Schabir Shaik is really the president of South Africa and Tuinhuis is has now relocated to KZN. This is insane, a man who looks like a onion has 5 wives and 19 kids plus we have a president who is out playing golf, eating pizza and burgers and really having a pay to play contract. How does this work for the ordinary individual? We the people of South Africa are allowing this and we're condoning it so why are we complaining? My prayer is that the 2010 world cup event must grind to a hault and SA must go down in its entirety. the rest of the world must see us for what we truely are. A banana republic thats being led by an onion with 19 little spring onions. The ignorant uneduacted anc voters are still left with 1 foot in the bush pre apartheid they were 2 feet in the bush and now they're rulling the country. I cannot believe SA still has trade partners and foreigners are still investing in SA. Onion and his veggies has the foreign trade partners fooled but the FIFA world cup will reveal the truth about SA, its a lawless nation fuelled by greed and filth to the core and its stems from the heighest office to the cleaner and gardner in the government of SA. I concur that Mail & Guardian is riding this story and the outcome was visible and predictable since the inauguration of Onion. Is'nt that what youd expect from Onion?

The MOCKster

It also asks "How do we sleep while our beds are burning?" I daresay it's a little hot in our criminal justice bedroom these days!

And so the whole sorry affair blunders on - it is and always has been painfully obvious that Shaik's release is for reasons other than medical.

But despite this, the politicians lie lie lie and think we will believe their stories. Some do - many don't

@Louise, stop howling like a dog

say something meaningful, intelligent useful...worthy....notable....dignified...constructive...
something which indicates that you have used some brain cells (at the very least) to undertand the report, that you have processed the information and that cognitively, you have undertood the content.
Please humour me.....with just a teenie..weenie....pinkie..size...INTELLIGENCE!

Wow, kakky kat. Did you google all those big words? Now try and use them constructively in your posts! Hard, I know but it can be done!

Dear all

The problem is not Shaik; he was quite correctly sentenced for his misdeeds even though I think his sentence was ridiculously high - murderers get away with less.

The first problem are lying doctors whose judgment was politically clouded (anybody for family physician of the extended Zuma harem?) and they must be suspended from practicing.

And the second problem, of course, is once again the morally corrupt ANC getting the relevant ministry to exert its influence. Now who will hold them to account?

So I say to good old Shabir; enjoy your golf, live a long and healthy life and give anyone who thinks otherwise the middle finger.

Moxie/Sikelele/Kitty/Dave: This is YOUR reasoning for why Shaiks should be pardoned:

"Because the DA is racist"

Ah, from a 'New democrat' to the 'New oppressors' - Learn the meaning of democracy.

TO ALL MY COMRADES WHO HAVE RESISTED THE MINDLESS STUPIDITY OF THE MINORTY GROUPS, COngratulations! You have proved once again that the struggles continues!

It is my humble submission that we have once again highlighted that there are those who will continuously focus attention on non-issues It is also obvious that when news is written through a Corporate lens, the shutdown on credible and relevant issues has become an endemic problem in media houses.
The dumbing down of news has not only let to a practise of isolationsm but has also made these people fail to understand their 'voice' in the social discourse. One can also conclude that the conflict in our society will continue unless there is an opportunity to a window of undertanding between the 'two sides'.
Lastly, I am sick and tired of appeasing this minority and being reconciliatory. We need to for once and for all, draw the line and agree that this fight MUST continue on all fronts, at all times.
Aluta Continua!

@Louise, I wonder when you are going to get it into your head that no amount of calling us, stupid,lazy,drunk,animals or savages has had no effect on us at all. You and your forefathers have been calling us these names for over 350yrs(!)
Cant YOU at least use some emotional intelligence and BREAK THE CYCLE. The more you shout, the less we hear! Try something new, especially for 2010, ITS GOING TO BE A GREAT YEAR!

Kakky Kat, show me where I have called you any of the abovementioned names! Don't make such stupid comments when you can't back them up with facts. Don't go shouting your mouth off without reading comments. Empty vessels make the most noise. You silly little ostrich! And by the way, I don't mind be equated with a dog!

AlUTA CONTINUA !

AMANDLA ! AWETU !

A sincere request to all - please stop generalising/ labelling and please stop the racial insults and polemics - it is in very poor taste. It is also boring for those who are genuinely interested in issues. Thank you all.

Kitty: LOL, you have NEVER said a reconciliatory thing in your life!

As for your 'braveheart' speeches, please save it for the next 'Black Panther Communist Youth League United Front" meeting.

Corruption is not justified with racism.

The MOCKster

The song also asks: "How can we sleep while our beds are burning?". I daresay it's a little hot in our criminal justice bedroom these days!

Louise...Welcome back! I was wondering whether you demonstrated cowardice by ignoring our powerfull debates on this forum! You astonish me once again by your moronic comments! You still did not learn the essence of debate without insults! I hope you will soon see the errors of your hypocritical and arrogant ways! I never had any respect for neo-liberal politicians or parties, especially the those from our english speaking compatriots! The english speaking liberals were the biggest 5th columns in SA. They condemned the afrikaners but practiced apartheid behind close doors! Some of my very closed friends from these liberal backgrounds "toyi-toyi" with us but then go home where the black domestic and gardener must still use the garbage entrance! I have never voted nor will I ever vote for the DA, just like you would never vote for the ANC!

Sias Coetzee...Dont know who you are but you are as irellevant as your party, the DA!

Anyone remember this post from last week?
He was set free for a number of reasons, I hazard a few guesses:
Remember the 'intelligence' tapes that apparently got Zuma off the hook? Coincidental that a certain Mr Shaik predicted that charges against JZ would be dropped. A government job, intelligence of course, and brother out of jail seems like a small price to pay if you were in JZ's position. Is it difficult to get a medical report one desires when you have intelligence operatives and Rands to play with? Balfour knew he was out of JZ's cabinet, needed to curry favour, the small matter of releasing shaik earned him an ambassadorial posting. The doctors who certified Shaik was terminally ill need to be struck off the Medical Council list for incompetence and if they are the same that prescibed a luxury lodge for recuperation then they should be struck off the list for fraud. The spokesman for Correctional services either does not understand what terminal illness means or he has forgotten that the original parole conditions did not have recuperation as an option or presumes that us voters are too dumb to tell the difference nor understand.
The trouble is S Shaik is not playing ball, why does he not just disappear quitely and not rain on JZ's parade? I would watch my back if I was him or perhaps between his intelligence operative and scheming brother and him they really do have JZ over a barrell. But, of course, all the above is only fiction or is it? Difficult to tell these days.
Ngamo Mabufu on January 9, 2010, 12:05 am

@Kitty Kat & ilk

If you blacks don't like it, you'd better leave SA. You must GO!

Or you may just get hit by a man-made earthquake - once & for all.

They just didn't mention it would take as long as everyone else "to die a consolatory and dignified death", probably at least 30 years.

Just how long does this damn parole last, until he gets better?

Ol’ Moxie

Midnight Oil. As far as I remember it was about beds that were burning.

Never the less, you don’t think you to rather quote from “I love the sound of pouring rain”

Pouring rain sounds so much softer on the ear than burning beds.

Cheers

Harry Callhan

NKOSI, The only thing powerful about your "debates" is the smell dude. I have been pissing my pants looking at all these comments slagging each other off, and some arb oke pops in and goeas, OH please wont you people stop with all the name calling, it is not in good taste. WTF is that, where does this oke live??? HAHAHAHHHAA

Apoc....So far I did not see you contributing anything constructive to these debates besides stupid one liners as you posted on the Selebi case!

@Nkosi, it is as we have said on numerous occasions, this issue of WHITE RACISM and their deliberate evasive tactic to address this issue in their society. The problems of racism has got nothing to do with blacks, the problem rests squarely on their shoulders. There seems to be this continuous parading of a monopoly on 'intelligence' and 'moral judgement'. eg this Shaik saga. Can someone please tell them we do not their guardianship. In fact, they should go back and deal with their own conscience and deprogram themselves of this perpetual teacher-student relationship!

Be free Mr Shabir by all means this is your lot in life.

TO: nkosi sikelele on January 15, 2010, 9:25 am - You say "Thankfully they only represent less then 1% of the populace!"

This is EXACTLY why CRIME & CORRUPTION is so big in SA. "less than 1% of the populace" can never, ever, ever, carry the more that 99% who see nothing wrong in the conduct of a corrupt President and his corrupt friend. If over 99% of the populace see nothing wrong in crime, then less that 1% who does, can never uplift the country and make it prosperous for all and not just prosperous for a corrupt few while the more than 99% dies of hunger and get killed by criminals for the little that they have.

c'mon people,
if Zuma didn't know there was nothing seriously wrong with Shaik and he was really terminal and at death's door, he would not have taken so long to get round to processing the pardon.

I think most of the guys here are missing the point. The bone of contention of this whole article is about shaiks medical parole but a lot of you guys seem to be concentrating on the comments made by Kitty Kat and nkosi sikelele and in the process they are being lambasted for their own personal opinions of which as an individual I feel it’s a gross violation of their freedom of speech. Hence let’s play the ball and not the man; let’s deal with the issue at hand and not on who writes the nicest English or who feels strong about an issue that is not within the predefined boundaries of this context or article.

In short I believe that no one is stupid here, hence let’s be robust in the way we deliberate and engage this issue in a constructive manner as we deepen and intensify the debate for the better of all… Amandla

Great comment Xolani Sibisi ... Awethu.

Nic Dawes, the editor of this paper, is a WHITE man.

That should be made clear for all to see, more especially the angle in which he approaches/dictates the direction of this tabloid.

Ol’ Mocksie & Nkosi Sikelele.
“Two in one”. Sounds like a brand of hair shampoo. Maybe your head should be washed......

You make Harry’s work unnecessarily difficult.

Cheers
Harry

The most powerful handgun in the world S&W 500 Magnum

Zapiro's cartoon of the day says it all!

You are 100% right Ms Kat - nobody, either individual or group, has a monopoly on 'intelligence' and 'moral judgement'. Likewise, however, I would like to suggest to you that nobody, either individual or group, has a monopoly on prejudice and any of the -isms including racism. I understand your frustration at the prejudiced comments made by individuals. However,I think we all - all of us, of all races - need to see beyond stereotypes. Stereotyping is easy, and evaluating people as individuals is hard. But let's remember Kennedy's words to do 'not that which is easy, but that which is hard'.

@Kitty Kat, yeah, they think they're still in a position to talk down to us. Their comments of "I'm not racist...", "I have black friends", "this is reverse apartheid", etc. etc. etc. does nothing for them but underpin their racist heritage. Their condescending attitudes expose their we-wanna-be-your-slave-masters-again mentality.
They have been weighed...
They have been measured...
And they have been left wanting...

Kitty Kat....I never thought the day will come when I will miss cmde Mbeki! Our white compatriots feared him because he had no scruples about reminding them of their arrogance and hypocrisy! Our Prez JZ is treating these compatriots with kid gloves therefore they are under the misguided impression he's weak! It is time that he demonstrates the iron in him and deal with them decisively!

It is a wellknown fact that past DA leaders and other office bearers all accepted diplomatic postings from the ANC! We are positive that after the next election, the DA's heroic leader will propably also accept a post to either Haiti, Zimbabawe or Benin! Ha, haa, haaa, haa!

whats rong mara?

Nkosi, Kitty, You are correct, most of my comments are just a few lines of sarc. I am pulling the piss most of the time. In all truth, we can do JACK about JZ and his bad smelling corrupt little piggies, scavenging at the trough. Personally I find it cool that we can just slag each other off whenever we want. At least my posts are not all just racist bile. (Relax, I jerking with you)

Village Boy, I hate to say it but if he were a black man and someone made a comment like yours, can you imagine how racist that comment would be? Sorry to have to state the obvious, but maybe it isn't obvious enough.

Nkosi, she'll probably complain that she's 'Benin' there already, that she needs 'Zim' rest and she'd rather go on a 'Haiti's.

:-)

Sindiwe...Dont be a fool! Go back and read my post in the proper context and next time don't comment with your garden boy mentality!

There are some posters who I respect on this forum regardless if they disagree with me. You can notice it on their level of reply!

testing 1..2 1...2

Nkosi, what are you talking "kid gloves" JZ knows who runs the place(economy). He has to be very careful or else he will be asked to leave. Just like your midget comrade Mbeki. Also, JZ has shown a whole lot of metal. He is the oke with an entire shower sticking out of the top of his head. And, again, you are absolutley correct, the DA's illustrious leader HZ will in all likelyhood acccept, as did Leon, some post in a far away land. But then you should not forget, these are politicians. They every breath is about conning the rest of society. Thier every move is about staying on top of the pile for as long as possible. And then, well, they just go off to the next best thing. You and I have to stay and pay the tax man. Cool hey????

Shaik drives a BMW X6? He should be re-jailed just for his bad taste driving a POS vehicle like that.

The Village Boy with a Diploma

Jacob Zuma is a uneducated black man and a criminal. That should be made clear for all to see, more especially the angle in which he approaches/dictates/rapes our coutry.

@Moxster, I wish just for once.they could make a counter-argument that makes sense. Just for once a logical conclusion. It is important to have robust debates, we must contest, we must agree to agree but also to disagree. If I call to order a comment simply because that comments comes through a racist lens, then they should have enough emotional intelligence to accept my counter and then they should unpack if they disagree and contest. I am always reminded of the Iraq war, when they had the embedded journos. For some of us, we simply knew that this was a blanket thrown over information. Simply because we knew that if these journos were going to eat with the soldiers, sleep with them, rely on them for their lives then they were going to lose their independent roles as a consequence. We also knew that it was the right of the public to know exactly what was happening during that war. Would the Americans have shown compassion if they saw blown up bodies of babies and children, women or elderly or the sheer magnitude of war on humanity. I am sure had they seen this, there would have been a different take, simply because all human beings end up caring about each other any way.
Its the same with this shutdown of independent news. We care enough to make the correct conclusion. It is the fact that there is GROSS distortion of the news and facts that irks me.

Anyway, to all my comrades, enjoy your weekend. May the revolutionary forces be with you, always!

MOXY, you beaut. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Very good.

Mr Moloko
President Zuma is NOT a criminal. Even when parodying previous comments, this is simply not true.

It's true... people see what they want to see...

NOWHERE in the article does it refer to the ANC but they, separate from govt, get dragged in this DEBATE...

Instead of the medical fraternity being lambasted and the parole board ALLEGEDLY not doing it's work, we see unrelated stuff...

Not so long ago Sunday Times stole medical records of the late icon of our struggle Dr Mantombazane Tshabalala-Msimango and published it for the sake of tarnishing her image in the public eyes. My questions are when private information becomes public information? When its suits who? Is this part of ethical reporting? Or ethics does not count on certain people?
I don’t want to comment about merit and demerit of stolen medical records.Philani@Umlazi

The Village Boy: 'Nic Dawes, the editor of this paper, is a WHITE man.'

Did you know what the OWNER of this paper is a BLACK man?

Mark...Good man!

Sinudeity....We know a guy with the name Ncube, a Zimbabwean owns this paper. So what? I wonder when last this paper have shown a decent profit? Wont be long before it closed down or the heroic Mr Ncube sells it? The way I see it, the M&G's days are numbered!

Just saw Zapiro's cartoon. I ka**ed myself laughing!!! Viva Zapiro, that oke has ballz!!!!

The M&G's days have been numbered for a long time, hence the general quality of its journalism has dropped to levels often seen in trash mags.

Lubanyana: Shaiks' medical records have been available for months now on www.WikiLeaks.com

sikelele: I was merely pointing out the idiocracy in village boys statement about the editor being white.

If Mr. Ncube sells it (which he wount), then I will buy it from him :)

Moxie: 'The M&G's days have been numbered for a long time' - But somehow they keep on keepin' on. Has the ANC's spy efforts revealed nothing that could shut them down? Guess not.

Unless you are refering to the death of the printed media? Not enough internet users in SA for that to happen.

Kitty Kat and Dave, you still have not given me your definition of racist, but now I see from the way you talk it goes something like this : a white person is a racist and a black person is not, or a DA person is racist and an ANC is not, or a white person criticing a black person is racist and a black person criticising a white person is not. Am I on the correct wavelength here ?

Goodness, ya'll have been really busy. But the prize has the go to out friend Kit Kat for her statement: "Lastly, I am sick and tired of appeasing this minority and being reconciliatory."

Lol, RECONCILIATORY?! Has the meaning of the word changed overnight? Does it now mean racist, demeaning and unquestioningly following the ANC?

Omg... These left wingers are absolute nutters. Just goes to show that with idiots like these around maybe the nats were on to something. "you can take the boy out of the bush, but not the bush out of the boy."

I think they would actually eat the shit that comes out of Zuma arse...oh wait they do that already....

"Whites pretend that apartheid never happened ...
Blacks pretend that they forgive ..."

On the latter: NO MORE!!!

The M&G, like all newspapers, has to be sure of it's information before publishing it. The contents of this article are subject to the same constraints. If the facts are not true, the wronged parties would be free to challenge them. There is, therefor, little value in the rants against the newspaper. If the facts ARE true, then justice has not been served, and any thinking person is entitled to question what the motivation for an unjustified parole might be. It is depressing to read through this thread, and others on this site and find that almost all of them have been interrupted by the likes of Nkosi and Moxster who seem to base most of what they say on calling the articles lies and then saying to all who question their leaders that they should shut up because the ANC won the election. Hitler won an election and proceeded to precipitate attrocities on his own country and the world. For goodness sake, even George Bush won an election, and look what that caused! Winning an election gives you the right to govern. It does not excuse you from being accountable to the whole country (not just your party) throughout your term of office. Nkosi and co, IF Shaiks parole was unjustified and IF a potential pardon is inappropriate because of his personal ties to the president, why would you want to defend wrong governing. If you believe they are justified, offer facts to support your opinion. These sites are an opportunity to express opinions and debate points of view. You do nothing good by saying that I and others have no right to question because JZ can do what he likes. Why not try to argue/debate facts as to why Shaik should have been parold (good luck with finding those facts!!) or employ some level of logic in your posts. Simply insulting all those that you think are white, the newspaper, the DA and anyone who challenges you, does you no credit. (And is a source of much irritation to many contibuters here.)We are not going to change policy by posting comments here -we are going to stimulate discussion and opinion. If you don't see the value of that, why not excercise your democratic right to log off?

Klasie, go home ...

Mox, you make my point for me.

Nkosi, let me induldge and humour you!!! Yes, baas, everything you say is right!

I have read through these blogs, and find the comments by the likes of Moxter, Kitty Kat, nkosi sikelele, Dave Harris, etc, are really a waste of space. They can't even comment on the article, but simply use it as an excuse to spew their racist garbage. M&G, I think you should exercise some editorial control here - if a comment is entirely irrelevant to an article, please do not publish it. Having to wade through the meaningless drivel by these commentators to find comments that actually have something to say *about* the issues is a waste of one's time. If people have their personal problems they must go into therapy and sort them out in their own time. Using a public forum such as this to air their dirty linen is insulting to those readers and commentators interested in the issues being written about in the articles. It also shows them up as extremely self-involved and selfish, as they try to elbow everyone out of their way while they rush to the ANC alter. Enough already.

Mark, of course you are right about freedom of speech. That is what so many people died for in this country.

It just gets so tiresome that the debate on every blog on this paper's website gets hijacked by the same old trolls, who gleefully drag the level of discussion into a racial slinging match. There is no engagement, just self confessed incitement and statements like "I do not come here to debate". What a waste of time and energy.

Yes, there is so much to discuss in our country, so many important issues.
But i would contest that the hijacking of fair exchange and reasonable dialogue on this forum is an afront to freedom of speech itself.

tsk- affront- not afront.
I mostly agree, Oscar. I am not sure censorship is the way to go, although I do agree that some of the statements verge on hate-speech which is unconstitutional.

As Hippo Crit suggets "Don't feed the trolls".

@Oscar Melamed
You do realize in somewhere in your little pea sized brain that your comment is the height of idiocy! ...LOL

Moxter, Kitty Kat, nkosi sikelele and many others have the courage to speak their mind and debate intelligently in a public forum on the role and responsibility of the media in our evolving democracy, unlike the racist rants and personal attacks from you rabid DA supporters.

Shaik isn't dying. He must go back and serve his sentence. His parole must be revoked. Dead simple.

I believe the editors of this paper are now chuckling, their faces have turned pink with joy, because they have achieved what they were always looking for: a divided nation. Blacks on the extreme left and whites on the extreme right, with absolutely no hope of getting them to the centre zone.

Village Boy, you are shooting the messenger.
It's not the editors who have divided the nation; it's the media's job to report, comment and stimulate debate, which the MG does fairly well. Its's called freedom of press, and it's enshrined in our constitution: how lucky we are to have this opportunity.
And there is a lot to debate about in Shaik's case, would you not agree? These are serious issues that gnaw away at the integrity of our nation.

On the contrary, it's polarizing partisan comments that border on hate speech (like some of the posts just above yours) that divide the nation.
(I'll not even start on that reflex-response, much overused tattered race card, that refuge of the intellectually bereft).

So I'll say it again; if one does not come here to debate and discuss fairly and in good faith, and simply cannot tolerate anyone's opinion other than ones's own, then please go somewhere else to blog.

On a point of interpretation - if the 'extreme left' is classic liberalism (the international, not the SA definition), and the 'extreme right' is ethnic nationalism - Mr Village Boy, possibly the polarisation you describe is exactly the other way around? Another peculiar SA paradox (which is always interesting when comparing the US and the SA interpretation of 'liberals' - who are vilifed from both extremes) . My own view is nobody's beliefs are defined by their race - people are more intelligent than that.

Moxter,Dave Harris, etc: "Zuma & Shaik, may be crooks but they are our crooks".

xcellent Village Boy! You deserve ANOTHER diploma, if you don't mind me saying so, cause you are able to see through this distraction!

I would highly recommend the movie "Wag The Dog" and you can see how the media expertly manipulates the masses to serve their own agenda....this time its the DA's obsession with Shaik to distract from their own failings as a political party to reconcile with the past rather than continue the old ways of the National Party. Remember the old "rooi gevaar" and then the "swart gevaar" campaigns?

@Village Boy. You appear to have an extremist and distorted view that is devoid of any semblance of reality. On what basis do you apply the conjecture that the M&G is driving Blacks and Whites to extremes.

Personally I believe there is more good will between the races in this country than you care to believe. The main stream of the people in this country aspire to a common purpose and most are passionate about their country. The M&G reports on current news. You read it at your own discretion. If you don't like the content there in nothing compelling you to read it. You are of course entitled to your opinions, but your assumptions are an indicator of your low intellect.

This 'crappy' paper seems to have an unusually strong following among the plastic revolutionaries (KK,Mox, Nkosi, Village boy,AFA and the grand daddy D. Harris. Is'it really that bad or are the other paprs worse? Whichever way, I think we are fucked. Time to put the banana on the flag. SA will come right maybe in the 23rd century.

Dave Harris: patronising and obtuse.

As for 'rooi gevaar', go and read how your own tantrumming organisation feels about the commies these days.

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-01-15-anc-youth-league-targets-mantashe

Enjoy hanging by your own petard.

Dave. Moxter has already made it clear on an earlier posting that he dictates, not debate on these forums. Which is it?

Corrupt Government, From Jacob Zumas down the corridors, What a shame? Now he is going to pardon his corrupt friend, Why as well do we have an uneducated President? Only just because so called poor masses LOVE HIM.

@Mark Robertson, why would the US wants to do something to the SA airplanes? This country only have a few planes and no pilots to fly them. Speaking of technology, this requires that a country has to produce a lot of skilled people and money to spend on research. The US sells it technology to countries in Europe and get a piece of the profit. You should wake to the reality that SA can't move without the US.

This is precisely what happens if governments and political parties have the power to manipulate justice. That is the reason why it is of cardinal importance to have a judicial system that is totally independent and can apply justice without fear or favour.

@Dave Harris: can't respond to someone without resorting to insults, can you. Tut tut - clearly your mother didn't teach you very good manners. Why don't you re=read all the comments, and you'll soon note that most of the bloggers agree with me.

@DH:"Moxter, Kitty Kat, nkosi sikelele and many others have the courage to speak their mind and debate intelligently in a public forum on the role and responsibility of the media in our evolving democracy, unlike the racist rants and personal attacks from you rabid DA supporters."
WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING, DH? Must be pretty good stuff, since you have lost total touch with reality. KK can't even write a coherent sentence, and wrt racist rants and personal attacks - GET A MIRROR MATEY.
I agree with Hippo Crit - we really need to stop feeding these trolls. No wonder they support Shaik, Zuma, etc - a confederacy of thugs. Put them in a room w/ the Nats and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, from a moral perspective anyway - corrupt the lot of them.

@Oscar Melamed
You really like "being right" don't you? ..LOL, OK Oscar, I didn't realize your were so sensitive to the size of your brain! LOL

But seriously, I think "fred sevillano" statement has a ring of truth to it:
" Is'it really that bad or are the other paprs worse? Whichever way, I think we are fucked. "

This you better believe my friend! The days of white AA are numbered. Time to pack up you old SA flag, check yourself into to the nearest shrink to de-program your centuries of white supremacist indoctrination, and lose the old Nat mindset.

Harris: Are you for, or against the release of de kok?

Good one Sinudeity! But don't expect a coherent answer from Davey Crocket. OM

Well, the ANC (or its supporters) have been true to form here - they have managed to cock up this blog, like everything else they touch. It continues to amaze me how stupid people can be - Kitty Kat, Dave, Moxster... completely immune to reason. Think of them as the armourplating around the ANC - dense, rigid and very very thick.

@Sinudeity @gmail.com
I tend not to respond to your toilet graffiti comments but I'll indulge you this time.

Actually, Eugene de Kock should face the consequences for his CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. I do however, respect the right of the presidential office to grant him a pardon. Even though Shaik, on the other hand, was simply a pawn in the ugly, corrupt power struggle between Zuma and Mbeki, its a much LESSER crime compared to de Kok's atrocoties. Nevertheless, I still however, feel that President Zuma granting Shaik a pardon is a conflict of interest.

I'll state again however, since you small minds, like the media and the racist DA are still "stressed out" about presidential pardons and deliberately choose to ignore the REAL problems in our country, that engaging in petty, divisive politics may yield short-term benefits, but will surely lead to your ultimate detriment. Time is not on your side.

I agree Havelock. Just ignore them. Resist the urge to respond to their mindless ravings, and maybe they'll all decide to join the SA army and assist our Zimbabwean neighbours. Or maybe - as is likely - all these pseudonyms are being used by just one person - one of the Shaiky Shaik brothers - Gumbo, Harpo, Groucho or Zippo!

Harris: Toilet graffiti? *Sniff* Come on Dave, this is the internet. Where people only say nice things! :)

As I see it, the REAL problem in this country is corruption. Somehow you think, its the 'awb' dudes running around, that want to retake it.

IMO, petty politics, is calling the person you are debating with, racist, instead of even considering the other side.

As I see it, your big problem, is if anything is white, it must be evil, and needs to change. Like 7 hour school days, maintaining power plants, democracy. That sort of thing.

Now please consider my argument. For arguments sake, consider Im an ANC supporter:

JZ, as president, is going to pardon a criminal, who sold out his country (for money), with his help. Will we pardon Mr. Fidentia Brown too? In fact, anyone who accepts a bribe, price fixing directors, corrupt municipal officials and policemen...

Do we as South Africans, accept this, simply because the people stealing from us, who sold out their principles for quick money, were heroes 20 years ago?

Personally, if my idol sold out my country, he wouldnt be my idle anymore.

@Sinudeity @gmail.com
"Like 7 hour school days, maintaining power plants, democracy. That sort of thing."
As I suspected all along...you're just another intellectually challenged pathetic white supremacist! You need help buddy!

Harris: Ag Dave, dont you get sarcasm? I'll add tags around my comments in future.

You totally ignored the point I was trying to make. You side stepped the important issue, and reacted exactly like I said you would.

I guess I proved my point.

Whatever happens, restoration of public confidence in the judicial system must be the underlying objective.

Dave you are extremely good at not actually supporting you viewpoints, simply by not anwering any questions directly. You carry a massive chip on your shoulder, and you label white people as racists - from what I can see since you have never given us your definition of racist. Please can you remove some of that indoctrinated white hate, and debate on this blog with some kind of sense, otherwise think about living in a different country.

I find it disappointing that ANC supporters deflect criticism by saying we should only talk about racist thugs from the overthrown apartheid regime. Wasn't the ANC supposed to be better? If the only way to defend the Shaik case is to change the subject to how things were under apartheid, what does that say about the ANC? The whole point of the struggle was to arrive at something far better, not something that could only be defended by comparison of the worst excesses of a police state.

Well said Philip. The mindless rantings of many of the ANC supporters on these blogs (KK, DH, etc) show all too clearly and all too horribly how the oppressed become the oppressors all too quickly. Reminds me of an anecdote by the philosopher Bertrand Russell; he had set up his own school, and one day a small boy came crying to him, as he'd been beaten up by another boy. Russell called in the bully, and asked why he beat the little one, to which the boy replied: "The bigger boys beat me, so I beat the little ones." Russell's remark: "Therein lies the entire tragedy of human civilization" (or something to that effect)

KK, DH et all seem to be saying "Yes, the ANC might be thugs, but they're our thugs." What matters to the present ANC and many of its supporters is power - which makes them no different from the Nats. They're not interested in a better world, or a better SA - just a better one for them. Same story, different regime.

Par for the course. Siyavaya. Cheers JZ... we're off to NZ. Taking the ANC's advice - rather not stay and whinge. Taking our brains and millions before they get squandered by our leaders. Salakamnandi aba'nganibami.

Well said Philip. There is a group of people circulating on these threads who do not enter the debate or defend their opinions or respond to challenges. All they do is spew abuse and 'shout' others down. First it was somewhat amusing, but the depth of their hatred and ignorance has become obvious and it is all a bit sinister. I have yet to have one of them respond on this thread with any reasons to support Shailk's parole or his pardon application -just 'we will do this because we can'.

Come on Dave, I have yet to hear you state a clear point on the issues at hand. You always sidestep the issue or challenges set to you by the other commentators with rhetoric.